Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hi, it's Steve indigot sport Law. Leave me a message. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Hey, Steve, it's Dina. You aren't going to believe what just came across my desk. We need to chat. Give me a call.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Welcome to the latest episode of Sportopia. We're so excited to share our knowledge and have conversations about healthy human sport. So much has happened since our first episode of Sportopia in January. And in today's episode, we'll be talking about the implications of dealing with something we call the tyranny of the immediate for sport leaders.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: We'd like to thank the sport leader that reached out to us after listening to a previous episode of Sport Topia, where we referenced the tyranny of the immediate. We feel it's worth 30 minutes or so here today, so we're going to jump in. And Steve, before we do, I want to know what's coming across your desk this week.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: I always get worried about this segment, Dina, because I never know what I'm going to talk about. And then I just look in my calendar and see what I did yesterday to come up with some ideas. And just the three things I jotted down relatively quickly this morning was one is investigations. Investigations is something that we're seeing in the media quite often these days with respect to how Sport is managing complaints. And I think the understanding and the use of investigations is super important as to when to use them, when not to use them, how to use them, who should do it, how much are they going to cost, and all the different moving pieces of an investigation.
A particular hot topic right now is when to start them and when to stop them and what happens after the conclusion of an investigation. And in my opinion, an investigation is one piece of evidence that will likely be used in a complaint management process and shouldn't always be viewed as the be all, end all of a complaint management process. It's a part that is sometimes extremely necessary and sometimes not necessary at all. But I do think it's an important topic that people have to be aware of. The other topic I want to talk about is a new one, but an old one, the use of waivers and the use of risk management strategies. When we talk about litigation, the ethics of a waiver is always an interesting one. Hey, Dina, come play a particular sport. You might hurt yourself, you might break your neck. But by the way, if that happens, you can't sue us.
You've waived that right to sue by signing the waiver. So the ethical debate in sport is always predominant when we talk about waivers. But it is something that is very common in sport, very much almost a mandate by insurance companies to have them as a risk management technique. But I do think organizations have to have answers in the back of their pocket as to that ethical question of why are you asking me to waive my right to sue? And the last thing I want to talk about is relationships. And not personal relationships, but corporate or organizational relationships just recently was involved in trying to facilitate an agreement of the minds between an NSO and a PSO and for that matter, their club. So what are the obligations to be affiliated? What are those steps? Is it just pay your membership fees and apply? Or are there additional hoops that have to be jumped through to ensure what I like to say is that an organization can manage itself. If it cannot, then their problems are going to move up the chain to the provincial or territorial organization or potentially to the NSO. So ensuring that there's alignment or at least the ability to manage issues is really super important. Dina, how's your week going?
[00:03:53] Speaker B: Well, I don't know that I'm going to top all the amazing things that you've been working through. Steve, on behalf of our clients, there's two things, actually. I just came home from a weekend Death Doula retreat, and you're probably going, Where is she going to take this? What does this have to do with sport? Well, remember, the podcast is Sportopia, and for a while now, I've been advocating for greater grief and loss literacy in sport so that we can better equip the participants in sport with a more humanistic experience. And grief and loss literacy is a significant component to that and why I'm sharing that with you. There's two stories. The first is about three weeks ago, a volunteer came out to support a sport club, an association, and had a massive heart attack and died.
And it was the first time he was volunteering. He was a friend of a friend and came out. And so there was some real risk management questions around our obligation and duty to the volunteers, had he signed a waiver, all of the practical things that we might associate. But beyond that, because I'm a Death Doula, I also ask questions around how are the athletes, how are the kids in the experience? What about the trauma that some of them may have been exposed to? And so in the conversations I had with the sport leader, we offered and this is the third time I've done that this year, offered a bereavement session, if you will, for people. And sometimes only four people show up, and sometimes I've had 40. So it was really helpful. And then parallel to that, I just had a sport leader reach out because one of their staff, that person's parent, is going through a really difficult time and they want to ensure that their staff person has access to bereavement support. So it's really interesting that people are now starting to awaken to that. Part two to all of this is what am I tracking that's different now? I'm getting a lot of sport leaders that are calling me about the Nova profile.
So leadership development, increasing the awareness of sport leaders to understand themselves first and then to build an environment, a culture where we can work better together. So getting a lot more traction, Steve, on the Sport Culture Index, as well as the Nova profile, which, as you and I know it's, the more proactive measures to help hopefully reduce the likelihood that we're going to get concerns and complaints about bad behavior.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: I always like the fact, Dina, that you always start to work in spaces that people don't know they need and having to educate them on how helpful those services can be. And I always love the fact, Dina, that, you know, you come to me with these ideas and I think you're crazy, and then realize that they're all very valuable to people and the sports system as a whole. And today's topic is in line with that as well. Dina, why are we here? What is the tyranny of the immediate?
[00:07:13] Speaker B: I love that you're calling it tyranny. You say tyranny, I say know, tomato, tomato, potato, potato.
So the tyranny of the you know, I can't remember, Steve, when we actually started using this language, this way of thinking about all that is happening in sport. When I was doing some reflecting on how I wanted to approach today's conversation, I Googled, where did this language come from? And tyranny of the immediate wasn't what came up. What did come up is a book by Charles Hummel back in the 1960s who published this little tiny book, much like the little tiny books that we wrote 20 years ago. And it was called the Tyranny of the Urgent.
And what Charles did and it was a bestseller for leaders who were seeing themselves in this experience of dealing with the urgent, but not necessarily important. And so, maybe inspired by that, we started using the language, the tyranny of the immediate, and what that means. If we are not consciously choosing to engage with these things that are coming at us, it can feel overwhelming, exhausting. It can lead to things like compassion fatigue and workplace burnout, where you feel a form of helplessness and hopelessness. And so you and I know with the work that we do, we are dealing with sport leaders and coaches and athletes that are 50 shades of concerned right now. And so dealing with the tyranny of the immediate means am I choosing to intentionally work through these urgent and immediate things that require my full attention? And then what we're going to get into is ask ourselves, what are the risks if all we're doing is putting out fires or the game of whack a mole that we seem to be immersed in right now? We can forget about the humans in the experience and we can be looking to blame and shame people and we are looking to punish people inside this fractured, depleted, I would say dying sector and system as opposed to pausing and asking ourselves actually what is important to us, what might be the values that we need to better deal with these situations. And what might be possible if we were more choiceful.
And asked ourselves, the system that we're in right now was never designed to deal with all of these complexities. So if we were to design a 21st century sports system, what might it look like? Well, that's an important question that we can't get to because we're so busy dealing with the tyranny of the immediate.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: What's interesting, Dina, is as you know, I do a lot of work in governance and board composition and board portfolios, and board titles and terms and all the things that are in essence bylaw related. But one of the questions I ask rhetorically, because I don't think a lot of people know the answer, but I say to them, as a board member, when your term is over, how do you know you've been successful? And a lot of times the organization or the individual would say, I don't really know. And one of the other things I'd like to add to that is you need to remember that you're not everything for everybody and to identify objectives or strategic outcomes over a short period of time or a long period of time. That's what I want to hear the answer to. I remember years and probably two decades ago doing a governance review with an NSO and asking them to pretend they don't exist and say, well, what do you want to do with this organization? And they said, well, we want to be the high performance system for sport in Canada, in their sport. We want to develop officials, we want to develop coaches, and we want a new website.
And I love that because those were their focuses for the next two years, was to advance athletes, advance coaches, advance umpires, and get a new website. And I think when you present that to your members or your stakeholders to say, look, this is what we're focusing on this year, I'm okay with that. I think trying to do too many things is just going to create that insanity and that need for the immediate attention. I know I enjoy working on a Saturday. I don't like working on a Saturday because it is family time. But what I like about working on a Saturday is I know I'm not going to get 50 email and 14 phone calls and I'm going to be able to focus on what I'm doing in chunks as needed to. Get the job done. Rather than spending three minutes on a bylaw review, answering the phone, getting distracted, that nine emails came in and then coming back 30 minutes later to the bylaws. And I'm still on the same opening paragraph. So I really like being cognitive of that. And I know certain people are applying different techniques. I know some of the team members at sport law have actually started to download software where it will actually close your email for a certain period of time. You will not get email for whatever time period. You know, they're very productive during that period of time without beep email coming in.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: I love that. Steve, as a coach, as a leadership coach, I would say that you are becoming intentional. First you have to be aware that you are dealing with the tyranny of the immediate. Then you have to be able to disrupt that by asking yourself what happens when the immediate always triumphs over the important.
And so if we have healthy, I call them coping practices, healthy river banks or boundaries that allow us to do that more important work, that requires more thoughtful and dedicated attention, that isn't that Whack a mole reactive mode that often. And this is where you and I, our worlds collide in a really healthy way. And why I was so attracted to the domain of risk management, it wasn't because I was a risk manager, it's because I knew that if we could equip people with muscles around better managing their risks, then they would be better able to spend time on purpose, right, working on their mission statement on their purpose. And so what I appreciate about what you're sharing and for those who are listening, it's having the discipline to put in place regular processes so that we are giving ourselves time and space to actually deal with the important.
And or if we're dealing with the immediate, at least we're doing so in a way where we are going to control the environment so that we can make really informed, evidence based, values based decisions. Otherwise, as you and I know, when you're dealing with risk over and over and over again and you're not coming up for air and you're not taking care of yourself, then your capacity to make right decision is compromised. Right? We are human beings first. And in the world of sport right now, it feels like we're human doings. We are on this automatic pilot where our sympathetic systems are super activated right now. And you and I see that too, when we answer the phone and we're talking to people, they are talking from the neck up. They are not accessing their wisdom, which is knowledge acquired over time. They are talking really fast, often, and they are looking exhausted.
These are all the humans that we're here to serve. So we need to be, as you said, cognizant that we are in the tyranny of the immediate. And what that needs in order for us to get out of it is that disruption that you just said. So I spend an hour and a half on a Saturday while my family is doing something else and that actually restores my health so I can be in service of my clients and also in service of my family. I'll go back to my family more refreshed a little less weighed down, does that?
[00:15:54] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
I think there's a lot of truth to that, Dina. I know when I can spend 2 hours on a Saturday and get some work out, I feel much more relaxed. And that burden of coming into the next week is far reduced.
Trying to figure out how do we get out of this cycle is really an important conversation. And I always say, Dina, unfortunately the majority of my work is moving sport from point A to point A. We deal with an issue and we go on to the next issue. But I really get excited about working with sport, moving them from point A to point B, moving them ahead, moving them forward.
And I think taking that moment to breathe and really implementing a simple risk management assessment will help, right? What can go wrong, what's the likely it's going to go wrong, how's it going to impact my organization, and how can I control that risk to make sure those risks are minimized. And I always advocate to boards and staff members to ask those three or four questions while you're making decisions and it will help you. And of course, most of the listeners who work with me will know my favorite statement, what does your policy say? And making sure that foundation is there when that immediate need comes up, I pull up my document, oh, step one, step two, step three. Here's my policy. So I do think there are some tools that probably already exist and sometimes people don't even know about them that can assist you as these important decisions have to be made with very short period of time.
But it is being cognitive of to have the capacity to be proactive, to be able to do that.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that Steve, and I would say, what does my policy say? Because our policies are a documented commitment. This is how we're going to deal with this thing, right? So if there is a complaint, here's what our policy says about how we are going to navigate the complaint management process. And when we share that information with the people we're here to serve, then everybody has clarity on what to do. The second part of that, I would say it's insufficient to just be considering what our policy say. We also have to consider what are our values calling on us to do. Because as you and I know, the must do is usually entrenched in policy because we need to have a policy in order to be compliant with X, Y or Z legislation or an expected standard by our funding and accountability partners. That's sufficient, but partial. And so the next layer up for that is more in the domain that I like to play. That's the moral, the ethical imperative. And we in sport try to decomplexify that. Our values are the statements of belief, right? And we have values internally that guide who we are and how we show up in the world. And then there are also values that we use as people inside an organization to help us be clearer about how we want to treat each other. And those values give expression to this thing we called culture, which is the accumulation of artifacts and ways of being that have transcended over time. And the challenge is, if we don't ask ourselves, not only what does our policy say, but what do our values say? We run the risk of disenfranchising the people we're here to serve because they're going to say, I see the policy, but I don't feel your care. Or here's what the policy says, but I'm not being taken care of by the policy. So being able to ask ourselves, what are our values? Telling us about this, I think will give us a much better sense of mitigating risks related to poor human behavior.
[00:19:58] Speaker A: I want to split the words. Dina immediate. Tyranny tyranny.
Let's split the words because I think tyranny tyranny gives us an overview of panic, of the outcome is catastrophic, it's a terrible outcome or ending.
And I want to leave that word, I want to talk about the word immediate. And when I started practicing law 20 years ago, the Internet was obviously around, but email was not an acceptable form of communication in the law world yet, and it was still done through mail or fax, and particularly mail at the beginning of my career. And when an issue came in with a client, we had time because the line was always, oh, the response is in the mail, you should get it in the next couple of days. And maybe we had sent it or maybe we hadn't, but we had time to draft a response to meet with our client to that luxury again, of time to make an informed decision. In today's environment, if you don't reply to an email in ten minutes, people are wondering where you are and why aren't you at your desk and why didn't you deal with my issue?
So the luxury of time is really what I think a very important part of what we're talking about today is as you've alluded to take the time to identify our vision, our values, our mission, our strategic plan, our levels of accomplishment for the year.
And I always find that a lot of clients will call us with a meet, they want immediate attention. And those clients are the ones who are all over you are, at the end of the day, the ones who really don't need the immediate attention. They view it in their mind as something that requires immediate attention. So what are your thoughts on that, Tina?
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I appreciate I needed a moment to kind of reflect on that. And as a journalist by training, I so appreciate the language and the power that words have over shaping meaning. So while you were talking, I got curious and I went to our trusted friend Google and just said, what does the word tyranny? What is it actually, what's it defined as? And here it talks about cruel and oppressive government or rule a nation under cruel and oppressive government, a cruel, unreasonable or arbitrary use of power or control.
And what's really fascinating as you invited us into that great reflection, we deal with immediate things all the time, right? We have to pay bills. We have to get our kids to their activities. We have to deal with human relations issues that pop up. And yet, if we are beholdened to the tyranny of the immediate in an unconscious way, then we can't choose wisely. So, what I love about what you were saying is it does feel right now that Sport and I would say I would love for sport leaders to understand this we are not in a sport crisis. The world is in what we might call a meta crisis. And I navigate several different realms. So in the healthcare industry, in the dying industry, I'm connected to coaches who work in many sectors. So if we in sport feel that what we're going through is isolated to us, it is a crisis of consciousness at a meta level, at a universal level. And what that can help us, I think, deal with Steve is that it's not just us. Yes, it's playing out in our system, but the entire world is in this liminal space, right? This transition between an old worldview and a new worldview. So I love that the arbitrary and unreasonable, dare I say, cruel use or misuse of power is contributing to, I think, a lot of what we're seeing these sport leaders, coaches and athletes experience.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: So what can we provide Dina, our listeners, some proactive tools to be cognitive of where they are in their day to manage the tyranny of the immediate? I know I have some Thoughts about whether it's taking a walk or whether It's blocking off that time, 1 hour, 2 hours a day, where you turn your phone off and turn your email off.
What other thoughts do You Have or some tools that our listeners can use?
[00:24:45] Speaker B: Yeah. So thank you for inviting Me to create a coaching practice, right? Because that's what we're talking about here. When we work the sport law leadership coaches, when we work with clients, we give them practices, just like athletes need practices to develop and hone their skills. As leadership coaches, we've become really well versed in giving people human practices related to meaning making, or it could be something related to organizing and prioritizing. It could be noticing when I'm angry, when these emotions surge, then what do I do? So we are in the business of creating healthy practices so that our clients can build new muscles. So what I've designed here and we'll put this in the show notes, a couple of things. So I would say step one either and you'll have to decide what this looks like. Steve, you have your Saturday. I've invited clients to on the Sunday evening before they get ready for the week ahead, for them to just kind of scan their horizon and take a moment to consider a couple of the following things. First of all, and you said it before you engage in your review, pause and just center yourself.
Come back to your breath, right? Kick off your shoes and find your feet. It changes the way that we're going to relate to the week ahead. Number two, review your mission, vision, values. Why am I here? What is my purpose for you and I? It's to elevate sport that is in my heart, and I access those more deliberately. And our values to inform. How are we going to show up? What are we going to do or not do? So really on a weekly basis, renew your commitment. You should know that information by heart. Number three, look at what you've already committed to. And I have a client right now, so she doesn't do hour meetings anymore. She does 50 minutes meetings, so she blocks off that time intentionally. So she's transitioning between meetings in a much more graceful, healthy kind of way and see whether or not these commitments that you've made start slotting them. Is this immediate tyranny of the immediate things that I need to deal with, or is this more the invitation for the important? And if so, what shifts for me when I start to look at is my whole week about immediate stuff.
Well, how am I going to spend meaningful time carving out the important stuff? And what we would say as coaches after you've cleaned up your week and maybe you've made some modifications, really ask yourself what is truly important to you as a human being? So, as you said, Steve, taking a walk, spending time with the family, walking my dog, that can be an amazing transition, right? Working with your animal and using that as mind time to clear out the stuff that accumulates over time. And when we start to inject meaningful, deliberate practices that help us declutter what is immediate versus what is important, what we might find is this often the proactive values based, long term strategies are in the important. And what can get in the way unless we're conscious about it is the tyranny of the immediate. So by being more conscious and deliberate and activating some practices to help you stay more holistic and healthy as you navigate these really turbulent waters, you might notice that you're making better decisions as a result. So those are some of the four steps that we would say will help you be more deliberate about how you manage your time.
[00:28:33] Speaker A: What I like about that, Dina, is we've spent a lot of time talking about people, but what makes an organization the people. So if we have healthy people, you should have the ability to create a much more healthy, wholesome organization.
[00:28:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. That feels like it could be a really great place to end. And our hope. I think the gift of what you just shared with me today is these conversations that you and I have had for well over 15 years together.
We wanted to bring that to the masses so that wherever you are across this country and we have clients that are international, that maybe you can tune in to something that we've experienced here, and it makes you feel less isolated. So David White says, you know, we shape ourselves to fit this world, and by the world are shaped again, the visible and the invisible, working together in common cause to produce the miraculous.
[00:29:35] Speaker A: Thanks, Dina.
To learn more about how you can move beyond the tyranny of the immediate, check out the links of the episode notes below. We always thank you for listening, and we look forward to not only sharing our vision of Sportopia, but also collaborating with our community to elevate sport.
[00:29:52] Speaker B: To have your say in Sportopia, email us at hello at sportlaw. CA or on social media sportlawca to let us know what you want to hear next. Until then, be well.
