Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, it's Steve Vindig at Sport Law. Leave me a message, I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Hey, Steve, it's Dina. You aren't going to believe what just came across my desk. We need to chat. Give me a call.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: Welcome to the latest episode of Sportopia. We're so excited to share our knowledge and have conversations about healthy human sport.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Today we're joined by special guest Philippe Marquis. Philippe is an Olympian competing for Team Canada in 2014 and 2018, chair of the Canadian Olympic Committee as athlete commission and a freestyle next gen coach.
And before we get to learn more about fitb, Steve, what's coming across your desk this week?
[00:01:05] Speaker C: I always, as normal, I like to look at my schedule and say, what is coming across my desk this week? And I always say things come in threes. I have two, maybe three, maybe another one's coming.
Board trainings. So I'm working with multiple board of directors on really understanding their roles and responsibilities. They're having some of the education they've given me in advance of the call is they're having trouble making decisions, having trouble understanding what everybody's role is, what their jobs are, what their responsibilities are, what can they do on their own, what requires emotion. So I'll be having two or three of those conversations this week to help provide a little bit of guidance on what it means to be a director, trying to understand your roles and responsibilities. And really the short answer is, of course, policy, policy, policy, policy. What does, do you know? What's new with you? What's happening this week?
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Well, it's a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And so there's a couple of things. One is I'm, I'm doing. The Nova Profile is a, as you know, it's a beautiful psychometric tool that really invites people to understand themselves a little bit more. You know, what are, what's, what are my communication preferences?
If I were a leader, how would I best describe my strengths? And what are the things that, you know, keep me up at night?
And, and what are my motivations? How do source my motivations when I'm trying to compete or lead or coach?
So I, I've had the distinct pleasure of incorporating this tool now for about eight years. I'm, and I'm part of the, the NOVA Profiles faculty, so I teach people how to incorporate the psychometric tool. And I'm just delighted because I get to do a Nova Profile debriefing this week. So that, that really makes me happy and Then on parallel tracks, and this is not so happy.
I'm working with a client now who's hired me to support staff in downsizing. So I'm working with their staff to help them first make meaning of this situation because they're being downsized or a lateral move or being, you know, told that you're, you're. You're going to have to leave the organization. And that's always hard. It's bittersweet, right? For some people, they're taking this and it's like an opportunity to fly because they really weren't thriving in their position. Other people are so attached to their identity and the relationships and their routine. So they're grieving.
They're really stuck in this experience, and they're coming to me to do a little bit of career. They call it career transitioning. But a lot, as you know, when you're. And Fidip, I'm sure you'll speak to this.
When you're an athlete and you've been in the game, in the sport for 15, 20 years, by the time you leave, it's been your everything since you were a little person. And so the latashma, the attachment that you have to the people, the identity, the, the, the experiences, the routine, the culture, it takes a while for us to unattach from that. And so I'm, I'm going to be supporting clients over the next two, three weeks in that space. And it's both really happy work, but sad, too. So I, I always come prepared.
[00:04:26] Speaker C: You'll have to watch the movie Dina, where George Clooney flies across the USA just exactly firing people.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: So I'm, you know, a Canadian female version of George Clooney. I will take that any day.
[00:04:37] Speaker C: Perfect. Perfect. Phil, we really want to thank you for your time today. Tell us a little bit about yourself and, and what's coming across your desk.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Yeah, well, thanks so much for having me. I think it's going to be a very pleasant conversation.
I'm very, very happy to be here with you guys. It's been a pretty long season already for me. When, when you're part of a winter sport, when March comes around the corner, April, the spring blossom.
You know, you've been on the road for, for months now, so I am actually home right now. We just finished a pretty packed about eight. Eight weeks on the road.
So on my desk it will be some me time and just get organized with, with my life, my routine, the things I have to do when I'm home.
And for those who don't Know me so well. I'm a two time Olympian in freestyle mogul skiing. Went to the 2014 and 18 Games. Had a rich experience in the sport.
Roller coaster journey through injuries and yeah, pretty good battle with myself throughout the, the whole career, but such a valuable and, and fantastic career when I look back towards it. And now I am a coach with the Canadian team, focusing specifically with the development or next gen team as we call it.
Very exciting times ahead, especially when you're a winter sport and we're less than a year out from Milano Cortina. So lots, lots happening for our team.
Exciting times and just super blessed and happy to be part of this again, but with just a different hat.
[00:06:17] Speaker C: Bill, you, you made the transition from a very successful high performance athlete, two time Olympian into coach.
Why I'm sure It took up 20 to 30 years of your life. Why, why not try do something else? Why stay in the sector? What motivated you to want to make that change to continue to be in sport? And of course, absolutely with a different role than, than athlete coaches night and day. We've all done it.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, it's interesting and I asked myself why not? You know, like it's, you acquire so many skills and expertise when you're, you're an athlete. And I was part of the Canadian team for 11 years. So there's so, so many valuable coaches in my life, so many valuable teammates as well.
I have a older brother that also was part of this sport for, for many years as well. So I learned tons from him, from his, his mentorship. And I think over time you, you embrace the journey through a lot of like great role models around, around you and you start traveling and competing and dealing with pressure and dealing with crazy schedule as well. Like trying to balance your social life with your school with the, the athletic and sporting life.
So, so all those skills, I, I felt like it was a natural path to me to, to try to give back and in a way where I felt like I always kind of did also when I was an athlete. So I always find ways to come back to my local club to help out at various summer camps where I could teach skiing and get involved. So like over time as I, I grew older and I became a more experienced ath accumulated as well like many little experience in the coaching environment. So that was something that I really liked from the get go and something that was very natural and a good fit for me.
So when I, when I finished my career, like every, like, like a lot of people, you question a little bit what's the path now and what direction you'll take and a couple doors open.
And with people I valued a lot, with people that, that trusted me to join in and get on board with their program and their system.
So I was very excited to turn the page on my athletic career, leave that behind, but open up another chapter that was not too far away. And that felt pretty comfortable as well. The biggest adjustment, as I always say, is when you're an athlete, everything is around yourself.
Every resources, everyone that you talk to are there to help you.
So it is you. You get sometime a bit in the tunnel vision where it's just you, you, you, and you don't really care what's happening around you. You just want to try to perform at the best level you can. And when you switch that hat to the coaching hat, it's, it's the exact opposite. Now, now what, what you do doesn't, doesn't count as much, but what you do for the others, like how present you are, that's exactly, that's exactly where, where it counts. And so adapting to that was, was a very interesting transition, but one that I really tried and, and valued quite a bit over time.
[00:09:39] Speaker C: Phil, you know, like, I know you'll have a question, but I just want to follow up with Phil on one thing. You know, you talked about Phil being an athlete. Me, me, me. What's happening in my lens, I was an athlete too, at one point, national, international level.
And I, I guess I still like to think of myself as a, as an athlete at a much lower level. But when I retired, I got into coaching as well. And one of the things that I learned pretty quickly was I actually found more motivation out of other people's successes than my own.
So I wonder how, how the transition has worked for you being at two Olympic Games. As you've just said, it was you, you, you, and now it's the team, team, team. How's that motivating?
[00:10:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with you on that. Really. I think it's, I think it's very rewarding to be part of someone else journey and feel like you're making a difference. And I would say, like, at the level I'm at, because I coach young national team athletes, there is, there is so much, so much opening, I guess, so much opportunity in front of us, so much to achieve. And I think that's when they realize kind of like what's, what's in front of them. So it's very, it's been very exciting and refreshing, but also like, from, from a result performance standpoint, but also for those that kind of realize that they might not have the edge to make it to the next level.
And helping them transitioning and moving on to the next phase of their life has been equally rewarding. So I've been finding that super interesting that I'm not necessarily feeling like the value of just being on the podiums, but I feel the value of like helping the athletes feeling good about their career and being okay to move on and be something else and have another etiquette attached to them, not just the athlete and their sport. So I do like those two aspects of the coaching world right now.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I really appreciate that. It's, it's a nod to not only helping people become physically, you know, extraordinary, but creating extraordinary humans through these, these moments, right. That are, are really for the privilege because as you know, it takes, you know, on average 10 years and 10,000 hours to be able to perform miracles. Really. Right. When in your sport, when you're turning upside down and doing these mirac making look so effortless. I really appreciate, Philip, what you said about when we're coaching, it's less about me and it's more about you.
And I think it's Dan Siegel that, that coined the term we need all of it, right? We need to be attentive to me. Who am I as a coach now and what's my intention?
And then who are you? The athlete. That's. That's you.
But then there's in this middle, it's moving from me to. To we. He calls it mui.
So there needs to be the attention to what is my motivation? What is inspiring me as a leader, as a coach to inspire you and then working into, in this like intangible space. And that is, it's magical when we're in that space as a coach, right? Because as you said, when you're preparing an athlete to move to what's next, you can appreciate how difficult that often is to hear you're. You're not on the team or it's now time to start to look at post athletic career. And having been through that, you know, you can appreciate how difficult it was to unattach, right, from all of the experience that you were in for, you know, for probably 15, 20 years. So what was that like, you know, what's that like to be present to someone else's, you know, suffering really, when you're helping them move from one stage of their athletic career to what's next?
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Well, I pick you. Like anyone, I think you, your foundation is all your experiences that you've had. So I really trust that.
My journey was filled with challenges and then filled with learnings as well. So I really lean on those to help me help my athletes and the team around me.
But it is a delicate dancing act, you know, like, you don't want to make it too personal and, and also just talk about you, but you definitely want to make sure that when you are moving in this journey with your athletes that it's, it's all about what they want to do and how they want to do that, whether it's moving on, whether it's just taking the next leap of faith and, and training harder and dedicating their self 100 to this journey.
But I think it, you, you want to empower them to be the sole responsible for, for their decision making.
And I think that's all you obviously build, buy in, but that's all you show empathy and you help them also be just a little bit more the leaders of their own destiny.
So I think it is a delicate act because it's not easy to do that and it's not easy with young adult that don't necessarily have the toolkit yet or the confidence yet to be, to be feeling comfortable making those big call and those big decisions. But there's nothing more rewarding than talking with an athlete, whether it's technical, whether it's just about their journey and, and life experiences and feeling that they're starting to open up more, feeling that they're starting to gain ownership, and then they're, they're the one dictating a little bit more the pace. And now you're just, you're just walking, you know, next to them, parallel to them. You're not necessarily leading the charge. And I always find that very, very exciting. And you can see the progression with an athlete when you're more leading and holding hands to when now you're kind of like moving together and just kind of side by side too at some point where the athletes even lead the charge and you're just there in the back to support in case something goes sideways. But you're actually just keeping up with them. So that shows like it's a strong, strong, a strong will, but a strong evolution in their development abilities as well. So that's a little bit the way I see it. And I just lean to my initial point on my, my experiences that I, that I went through with my journey where I had had some very tough challenges with injuries and with team selection and stuff like that. And I really had to reinvent myself and being creative and lean on people with experience and reputation to help me gain my own kind of person, I guess, personality and, and, and, and build my own character around that. So I, I tried to be that same mentor, role model to them to the point where I want them to at some point to really lead the charge.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's really inspiring. I love what you said about, you know, we want to create the environment so that these athletes can feel empowered to be the leaders of their own destiny. I really love the, the nod to autonomy and giving people agency. So, so thank you for that.
Before Steve jumps in with the next question, I really wanted to connect to your role as the chair, Canadian Olympic Committee's Athletes Commission. And even though we've just gotten to know you, we can see why you naturally moved into this position of leadership and just a Nod to the CoC, who, you know, for decades now has been supporting more, more roles for athletes so that athletes feel that they have voice and choice in shaping the career that they, that they want to more fully step into, not only on behalf of Team Canada, but as importantly, on behalf of them in their own pursuit of excellence. So maybe share a little bit more about, you know, what inspired you to become part of the COC's athletes commission and what is your sense of what more is needed to ensure a safe, welcoming environment for athletes and coaches as we continue to navigate through some of the turbulence right now in worldwide sport.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great way to put it that the turbulence for sure is something we're experimenting in sports system in Canada, but probably worldwide as well.
It's interesting. I didn't really feel them, I didn't feel inspired to join the active commission. When I did, I just was at the right place at the right time where someone came to me and said, hey, I think you'd be good in that role. So I was like, yeah, sounds, sounds like something I already did, I already do with Freestyle Canada. And I am always that voice that represent our athletes, that go to the coaches, that, that read documents, that question what we're doing. So it is a bit natural. So yeah, why not? But that's, that's a little bit how it started in 2018 when I was elected for my first four year mandate. And I remember the first couple meetings I had and I was surrounded by athletes that I think are iconic, you know, whether they knew or not. But I had like amazing achievement on the field of play. But, but I had to look up to them as a younger athlete. So when I joined this group I was in awe of just the, the work, the professionalism and just, just the overall presence of those, those human beings like athletes that in General, even in 2018, like we didn't feel at such strong voices but to see them just moving needle and, and shaking the system the way they were. I was very inspired at that point and knew I was at the right place and it just evolved like that through my first mandate and I, I guess I took more, more important responsibility and role within our group and in 2022 put my name forward for a second mandate and got elected again by my peers after the, the Beijing 2022 Games.
So, so here I am like just concluding my second mandate at the end of Milano Cortina and I'm now in the position of chair and I think we got, we got a system that is extreme, extremely troubled right now and turbulent as you mentioned. But we also have the pieces in place where we do see change and we do see people coming caring about it more than ever before, whether from the CoC leadership or whether from the opening of the ministers from the government. Sport Canada, we do have a system that in general I believe cares a bit more about the system, what's happening in the culture around the sport in Canada. We do have some big topics to cover, big areas that need improvement like from the safe space sport crisis, the culture around sport and many, many, many sports and obviously some of the most Canadian iconic sport have been the negative voices in the system. But it's unlucky because I think it's, it's a wider problem and I think there's a lot of great stories in their sport as well.
So I, I think, I think we're in a tough place, but I think we are in a place where we get all ears and all eyes on us, which gives you a lot of opportunity as well.
So I think right now with the political environment we're in in Canada and the US with obviously the funding issues we're having the SafeSport crisis, we got our hands full, but we have opportunity to change the system like never before because we got this crisis in front of us.
So I'm very excited with our group to start to the way we collaborate with the CoC, but also the way we collaborate one another with the, and with all athletes in Canada. This proximity, this, this sensibilistic approach, this sense of athlete centered vision is, is more real than it's ever been before. So, so I am pretty excited to be, to be in this position and lead Our group, but again, a group that is full of fantastic human beings, unbelievable achievers and very, very passionate people, as you can expect the Olympians to be.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: Bill, before we start talking about the ways and the positive aspects and how things should be, I wonder if you can talk about from two perspectives.
You're on the athletes commission, you were an athlete.
So what, what are the current challenges that, that you see athletes facing?
And then maybe the second part of that question is, now that you're a coach, what are the challenges that I, as a coach, you're facing? And one of the things I wrote down with social media, like, I'm curious to know, you know, do you have to rip the phones out of your athlete's hands? Is it a big, you know, is it a big distraction?
Where do you see the challenges on behalf of athletes and then maybe on behalf of coaches?
[00:23:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I think what you bring a really good point with social media and the interaction that, and I won't just blame the athletic that I think we all have with our technologies these days, but let me, before I touch on that, let me start with. I think the number one issue, both from an active perspective and a coach's perspective is just the cost of sport is probably the funding crisis we're in is definitely the, the biggest hurdle for, for athletes. And in a sport that requires a lot of travel like mine, it's been very difficult without, without the more money injected in the system. When you, you're dealing with just inflation, costs skyrocketing, and when, when you're dealing with also with the dollar that, that is not doing so well worldwide as well. So those are two big indicators that have been really tough on athletes where our calendar or schedules haven't changed much. But the cost of achieving the same kind of like day on snow or training days has pretty much doubled. So that puts a lot of stress on athletes that don't necessarily have a lot of time to find a job on the side or that are not necessarily coming from wealthy families. So that's number one.
And then for us coaches, it kind of like you can expect the same thing on the other end of the spectrum, where we're just working with a lot of tighter budget to deliver a program that we judge as, as important to have the performance that we deserve, but that we know Canada is capable of delivering. So we're, we're dealing with tight budget, with cuts. We're asked, I think, to achieve more, to be more present for the athlete, to deliver more from a logistical standpoint than ever before.
But also trying to do it with really, really tight financial situation for national sport organization and all the way down the whole pipeline.
And to your point, I think from a culture standpoint it is, we are, we are part with those new generation of access to technology, of information like never before.
They are glued to their phone.
We are also using more technology and we are also distracted by all that like never before as well. So I don't think, I definitely don't want to be just blaming or pointing the, the athletes in that but I think it's just a new culture that we're in and we have to adapt to, to so at some strong connection human to human and peers to peers.
So, so that's something very real. We see it all the time. And I'd say it as brought up this idea of just very, very quick access to success and quick access to. I want to do that, I can do that without really trusting that it takes time to develop without trusting all the learnings you want to be able to do and without really accepting that it is a step by step process and very few, whether you see it on social media will have instant success. So I think this idea of and you see it with parents, you see it with athletes when something goes bad, when there's failure and when there's an opportunity to learn and grow.
This conversation is really hard to have just because failures seem like the end of the world these days where I think we just all grew up a bit more with this concept of being okay, getting dirty, being okay to get back up, being okay to just get beat up by, by an older sibling, by my older teammates and, and that we use that as fuel and motivation as right now I think it's just affecting people just differently. So it's different period. But all in all I think it's, it's again more, more and more issue, challenges, crisis you face. I think more opportunity you have in front of you if you can be innovator, creative and if you can have good collaboration and open minded approach with, with the system you're working with.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: Wow. Thank you Steve for asking that question. And as we're starting to wind down our conversation together, I'm really inspired by you and your way of being and I can see how much of a role model you must be for the next gen who yes must be inspired by the fact that you're a two time Olympian and you're chairing the athletes commission and now you're a coach, but also you're very accessible.
It feels very easy to be in your presence. And I think it's in part your experience, but more importantly, it's your compassionate heart.
And I would like to ask. Our last question really centers itself on the dynamic between coach and athlete. And as you are preparing to have these difficult conversations where the athlete likely feels my time in this experience, in this journey is coming to an end. And for some it's easier to get there and for others it is unfathomable.
It is so difficult to acknowledge the ending of my time here on the team. So I'm curious, maybe inspired by your own lived experience as someone who had to go through that process of letting go and then opening yourself up to a new chapter. I'm wondering for our listeners, especially who, who might be looking to take some notes from you, a master class. And, and how do we do this right? How do we help people get to what's next?
[00:29:25] Speaker A: That's a great question and obviously one very tricky to answer.
Yeah, I guess there's no easy path and there's no to like. No one's the same. No one deals with their, their complex situation in reality the same way. And you know, based on what I've seen and based on my experience as well, I've always been very, very inclined to pursue other things than my own, my own sport. I was always chasing other, other skills and other interests while I was competing. And I think it served me well when, when sport, at least competitive sport got out of my life the way it used to be because I had other things to lean on and other interests to capture another curiosity.
So for me it was, and it is still very important to my athletes to make sure I'm there to support whatever else they see valuable in their life, whether it comes from school, whether it comes from other passion and interest. So I'm, I am, I'm trying to be very close to my athletes in a sense where I ask a lot of questions about what they got going on outside of sport and be tried to be very open and curious because I didn't always have the support from my coach and from the environment I was in. It's just things that I take, I took on myself and I just pursue anyway. So I don't want to be the same and I really want to be, have that proximity. So if they need time for, for school, if they need time for the project, I think we can be malleable and adapt to whatever when we know what to prioritize in our sport, in our, in our journey, but also leaving them the space to take off.
I think it's very important and I think when you look a little bit more into that transition, I think overall we have again, good opportunity to change a little bit the way we've done things with creating stronger alumni and ambassador programs because that there is a strong appetite and it's something we, we notice in our latest survey from the athlete commission when we surveyed the Paris Olympians. There is a strong appetite in giving back and being very involved in the community at the community level, at the grassroots level, but also at the highest level. And I think it's all for us to the benefits of us to use athletes as ambassador and role model in our societies. Whether it's at the community level, whether it's more like finding ways to be involved in high performance, it's just a matter of mentoring those and making sure that they are supported in that transition.
But they would be, they're great assets and, and it would be very valuable to, to have some of these, these athletes getting back in this system. So I think those are a couple of the answers to your very, very complicated and complex question. But yeah, it's all, it's always a mix of leveraging skills and making sure we, we find ways to see Pat to stay passionate and lean on, on the other various aspects of your life that are not necessarily attached to competitive sports.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Steve usually accuses me of asking these very profound questions and you have like 90 seconds to answer it. I, I really appreciate your answer and I would offer, you know, you, you were able to transfer these skills that you learned on the snow and in the air into your way of being as a coach. Right. And as you said, your passion for sport felt so true and authentic that you were able to extend it into being more focused on others. Which brings you a lot of joy is what we're seeing here. And then underneath that is this commitment to serve. And that commitment to serve was like honed because you were able to benefit from other people who were in service to you. So really appreciate that the two other things that you shared were how important it is to be person centered as coaches.
Right. And really focusing not only on the athlete because they're one of the people in the experience, but also on myself as coach and being clear on what are my values and motivations and how can I be companioning these athletes. Right. And how can I maybe inspire them to take the lead and they know they can trust that I'm behind them as like wind in their sails. And then finally really appreciated your, you're noticing that a holistic approach to athletic development means I don't put it all in. We're not playing Texas Holdem here, right? We're developing a person and through sport. So really thank you, Philip, for, you know, your story, your way of being, the way that you're continuing your love affair with Canadian sport. We're all better because, because of that, because of the choice that you've made.
[00:34:25] Speaker A: Well, thank you guys. That's, that's very nice. And I really appreciate you guys taking the time this podcast and sharing all that with discuss this. This discussion has been all, all positive and very rich. So thank you so much for having me.
[00:34:41] Speaker C: The good news, Phil, is that everybody who listens is going to learn about how you were successfully able to transition from an athlete to a coach. The bad news, well, I'm going to say it's good news, is that probably people are going to reach out to you and want to learn more.
So again, thank you very much for being here. We really appreciate it. In the episode notes below, you'll find some sport law blogs where you can find more information related to our conversation today. Thank you to our listeners. We are so grateful to share our vision of Sportopia with you and to help elevate sport.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: As always, to have your say in Sportopia, email us at HelloPortLaw CA to let us know what you want to hear about next. Until then, stay tuned for our next episode and be well.
