[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hi, it's Steve Indig at Sport Law.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Leave me a message. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
[00:00:07] Speaker C: Hey Steve, it's Dina. You aren't going to believe what just came across my desk. We need to chat. Give me a call.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: Welcome to the latest episode of Sportopia. We're so excited to share our knowledge and have conversations about healthy human sport. We are very excited to have a special guest with us today.
[00:00:41] Speaker C: Carey Calder is a senior executive and proud Anishinaabe member of the Sandpoint First Nation with 20 years management experience in indigenous, not for profit organizations at the local, provincial and national levels. She's an indigenous advocate, entrepreneur, collaborator, founder and team builder, and launched her company, Nakanagis Consulting a few years ago to support really the kind of embodiment of indigenous wisdom and really supporting people at a strategic level. And so we're just so delighted to have you join us, Carey, and offer your wisdom, your insight, and just your beautiful way of being to our listeners here today. But before we dive in, Steve, what's coming across your desk?
[00:01:27] Speaker A: We probably talked about this on previous podcasts, Dina, but I'm going to call it the 90 ten rule or the 99 one rule. And I talk about being proactive, and obviously that's something I've articulated on this podcast about how, of course, it's far more encouraging and fun to be working on proactive projects and reactive situations. And I just got a call this morning from a client and I have a meeting with next week to review the termination of a contract that is not going well. And I always say the 90 ten rule is applicable if you don't have your contracts properly reviewed or we're proactive before we launch something. You know, the cost of doing that from a monetary perspective or even a time perspective is, let's say 10%. But if we're dealing with something reactively that we didn't prepare for, it's going to take up 90% of the cost or 90% of our time. So obviously, the conversation with the client is probably not going to be a good one because they're going to be looking at terminating a contract early.
But I am breathing a little easier because I know that contract was reviewed in advance of execution, and we probably just have to implement a termination clause, send proper notice, and we can move on. So I just think it's, again, to advocate and re advocate for that 90 ten rule is to be proactive. Think about your risk management. What can go wrong? How's it going to impact the organization. How can we control it? And particularly on contract review, it's maybe an hour to 2 hours to review a contract. But again, helping somebody get out of a contract that doesn't have a termination clause or one that's poorly written is going to take up 90% of our time. So I just want to reinforce that. What's new with you, Dina?
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Well, it's so interesting, Steve, that what came across my desk this week is very similar. It's kind of like a sequel to the work that you're doing. So a client called me because they do need to part ways with an existing employee, but they want to do it in a way that aligns with their values. So they've reached out to me to brainstorm ways in which they could end the relationship. I don't like using the word terminate. It feels so legal.
So legal. But the legal language has got to be more humanistic.
[00:04:01] Speaker B: Wouldn't you agree?
[00:04:01] Speaker C: Steve?
[00:04:02] Speaker A: I've said this numerous times, that employment law and the humanistic side definitely butt heads, right?
[00:04:10] Speaker C: They're like these mutually exclusive propositions when, in fact, they should be mutually reinforcing. And so when they came to me with this seeming, you know, opposite, this binary way of thinking, we actually held both from a place of polarities, thinking, yes, we need to part ways, and we can do so in a way that leaves all of our souls intact. So some of the things we did included giving the person an opportunity to look at, you know, the messaging that would go out, and there was an opportunity for that person to request, like, how would you like this to be shared with the employees. It wasn't one of those situations. Right. And then the third thing is, they offered that person some coaching conversations with me and to help them think about what would the next chapter of their life look like in this career transition. So it's quite beautiful because you know that when I'm not doing this work, I do grief and loss work. And it's similar to a recent conversation I had with a professional athlete who found his way to me because he was really grieving, the way in which his career ended and felt gutted and angry and disenfranchised and didn't really know how to vocalize this, let alone process it. So it just reminds me, Steve, that when we part ways with people, we can do so in a way that is far more humanistic, you know, less legalistic. And, yes, we can honor the legal requirements that are there to actually serve the interest of all parties, but we don't have to be shackled by fear, which is what I think a lot of these contracts, experiences do, is they come from a place of fear instead of a place of equanimity and humanistic kind of worldviews. So. So that's what's been coming across my desk.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: I want Robin, our producer and editor, to note that this could be another podcast. Dina, on employment issues with respect to the legal versus the humanistic side. And I can just tell you off the top of my head, I hear you. I think there's a lot of our own experiences that would make, suggest that that could clash. But note it down, Robin. That's something we can talk about.
[00:06:34] Speaker C: Beautiful. See, I love this because, you know, the ying to my yang kind of thing and what, what we like to offer, and this is where it'll be beautiful to hear from Carrie. You know, if we are staying in the same sandbox, then of course, we're going to see the division and we're going to see each other as opposites. They can't, we can't hold both at the same time. But a lot of the work I like to do is kind of, like, bust some myths and also challenge some of the status quo. So. So we're delighted to have Carey join us here on Sportopia. I was really fortunate to get to connect with Carey, of all things, in a risk management online experience where we collaborated for several days.
It was so meaningful. Just a, Carey, your beautiful way of being. So inviting, so thoughtful. Very present. And if memory serves me correctly, a tree had crashed into your house or something like that. Am I right with, on that story, Carey?
[00:07:33] Speaker B: Oh, it's. Yes.
You're bringing me back to that moment, actually. Lightning had hit the tree outside of our house, bounced off to the roof of our house, started a fire in our attic. It was. It was so thank you for saying I was present. If I look back to that time, I might not have felt so present, but thank you.
[00:07:50] Speaker C: Well, it was. It was great. It was almost like it was an exercise and risk management. Right? Because the lightning and the tree and you were there. So we're just so grateful that you're here, Carey. With us, we have, as part of Sportopia, we are really looking to make examples of exemplars. And for us, you are one of those exemplars. So we know that you're not just working in sport now with your beautiful consulting firm, Nakanagis Consulting. And we'd love to know a little bit more. I know the back history of how you came about with that name, but we'd love to hear it from your lips. Tell us a little bit more about why you decided to launch it and the backstory on this beautiful naming.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Thanks for that. So I'll start with that. Nakanagis Consulting. That's my grandmother's name, Christine Nakanagis. So you mentioned in the introduction that I'm from Sandpoint First nations. So my community is bingwing, Nyashi and Ishnabek, which is in northwestern Ontario, about 2 hours north of Thunder Bay, where I was born and raised. But I'm now based in Ottawa, so the unceded, unsurrendered territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people.
When I decided to launch into consulting, I did make a very specific choice to start a consulting company. So it was really important for me to look at ways to provide the types of services that I felt I was always looking for when I was managing indigenous not for profit. So who are the companies I could go to for some of those consulting management pieces for strategic planning, project management, facilitation, whatever the case may be. And they really were few and far between. And I think that, coupled with my time throughout my MBA, having an inside look into the ways in which a lot of corporations and businesses kind of start their planning, which is this mindset of a competitive advantage, what do we do? Almost at all cost of others. And it didn't speak to me. In some ways, taking my MBA was how not to do business and how do I do things differently.
All of those things combined really then led to this idea to launch into Nakanagis consulting. And for choosing that name, I wanted to make it obvious to, or at least it seems obvious to me that it's an indigenous owned business. This is the focus of our work. So either we're working directly with indigenous not for profit organizations, or we're working with non indigenous, post secondary organizations or businesses that are looking to build their inclusion work or their allyship in some way. So that's the area of focus, and I wanted to be that first and forefront of the work. I feel like it's also relevant to share, just given the work that you do. Specifically, that I didn't actually get to meet my grandmother. She passed to the spirit world before I was born. And so there's something that's been very special about the fact that she is brought into my conversation now every day, and into our family conversation in a way that hadn't been happening, and we hadn't really thought about that. But that's been a recent really lovely acknowledgement. So thanks for starting with that.
[00:11:02] Speaker C: Oh, I'm so, I know Steve's going to ask you a question, but just wanted to honor the continuing bonds that we can have with our elders and those that have passed. And there are so many beautiful indigenous teachings and wisdoms around the relationships we can keep and maintain and nourish with all of our relations, both past, present and future. So thank you for modeling that.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: You're welcome.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Hi, Carey. Thanks for being here.
One of the things that we try to do on the podcast is to make things tangible. Hopefully our listeners get a resource or a tool or an idea out of it. So I'm curious to know, how are you helping organizations? And one of the, the things we routinely talk about with guests like yourself is how do we create policy into life?
[00:11:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm going to start by quoting you. Back to you, Steve. You started earlier, I was talking about that 90 ten and you talked about being proactive and that cost of that investment that goes into bringing in teams. And I think when we're talking about inclusive workplaces, think about some of the ways in which you are inviting people into your space, because really we do see some positions that might be one of only people who are in an organization. So at a bigger business or a bigger organization, if you have, let's say, an indigenous liaison person or a team of even five within hundreds of people, there's really this sense of disconnect that can happen. And so if you kind of go back to how are you inviting people into your space? I think there is an element of welcoming. What does that actually look like? How does inclusivity look through an indigenous lens? Because if you've designed it without that input, probably like if you look at, and I'm speaking from terms of a non indigenous organization, inviting indigenous talent into their workplaces, if that hasn't been vetted through community or have some type of assessment piece through somebody else from community, it's likely not going to land quite right. And so that can really have an impact on people feeling welcomed, feeling that career anchor, staying in those positions. And now suddenly you're finding that you might be, you know, having to deal with turnover. And we all know that there's a high cost that comes with dealing with turnover that, that you spoke about when we started. So some of the things that we've kind of looked at as being what seems like maybe could be obvious or easiest, easy wins would be something like attending conferences. So let's say if you have an organization that's you know, focused on sport. If there's an upcoming conference that has nothing to do with sport, but it's in the indigenous community, and maybe it's about, I don't know, economic development or something to do with reconciliation training or something else, but it's an indigenous led forum or conference. That person being able to attend, that can mean the world for just feeling that community connection, because they're not going to necessarily get that at your organization. So I think sometimes we look at policies and it's like you can attend professional development as long as it clearly aligns with your position. But some of those conferences might not be that obvious. So it's having that connection and that ability to do that. Something else that we've seen, unfortunately, is that there's a reporting structure that hasn't considered the limitations that will be on indigenous folks who come into your organization. And depending on the level of understanding, training, just that whole inclusion mindset of that manager or that lead, that can limit the ability of the indigenous talent that you're bringing in from actually doing the position that you've brought them in to do. So what you're in turn getting is only the mindset and thinking that would meet that particular manager. So I think, really, organizations need to relook at that reporting structure. Anyone who's reporting up to somebody else is going to unfortunately have some challenges, or I should not 100% of the time, but there's, there can, and there are regular challenges with how that can limit things. And then the final thing I think that we, you know, as a quick one to look at is, is there an established budget? Like, what is the resourcing that's actually available to folks that are coming into this position, are they empowered to do the work that. That you're wanting them to come in to do? And because the, on the other side of it, if there isn't an established budget or there isn't an established work plan, or if there isn't something that's in place to say, here's what you can do in this position that's forcing that person to always have to make a pitch or convince somebody or kind of be like having that tension piece, that power imbalance throughout their day to days. And that can be really tiring and it can be really impact someone's feeling of being included if they're not able to lead in their roles.
[00:15:49] Speaker C: Yeah, go ahead, Steve. I see you wanting to follow up.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: Well, I want to follow up. And Carey, if sport law came to you and said, we want to be more inclusive.
What would your steps be to help us achieve that goal?
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Oh, I think I would.
I was going to make a joke and say I'd start by giving you a proposal for a quote for our services.
[00:16:14] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Steve loves that.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: We can relate to that. We can relate to that.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: But I mean, really that's it. You know, we would start with a type of assessment. So what's currently in place for some organizations that are starting? There's this tendency to sort of hop into the reconciliation without first looking at the truth. And so there's a lot of education and awareness that needs to happen to kind of land. Why are we doing this work in the first place and what do we need to know and unlearn before we can get into unpacking these inclusive ways that we think that we want to be? But I think the first thing would be just taking a look at the landscape, what currently exists, what efforts have been made already or that you might think that you've made already. And how have those landed?
How have the, you know, how have you decided as an organization so far if you've done something, whether or not you're successful? So have you set up, you know, key performance indicators and then we'd look at where those KPI's actually then vetted through an indigenous lens because again, that's going to be very different depending on who's setting that up. We've also talked a little bit in some of our recent work around, just around KPI's around hiring. So if you're seeing a lot of hiring in particular roles, that doesn't necessarily mean things are going well because we are also seeing a high turnover of positions of sort of that one or a few people within a bigger organization that aren't necessarily being successful long term. So I think that's the biggest thing is taking a look at what currently is in place. I think it's also looking at what does your strategic plan look like? Has this been endorsed by leadership or is this, you know, the other reality is some organizations and businesses, and some of the bigger corporations as well, will have a side of desk employee group or someone who's kind of starting something grassroots, which is great, but that doesn't necessarily mean that leadership or management is on board with it. So how is this inclusion policy actually going to be championed by, by leadership? How is it going to be embedded into your organizational processes? And if that hasn't already been considered and done, then that work needs to start before some type of framework or plan that ultimately is going to be set up to fail. If it's not fully, it's not fully part of your organizational culture.
[00:18:28] Speaker C: Did that respond to your need for step one, step two, step three? Steve.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: She lost me, Dina, after she said she was going to send a proposal.
[00:18:39] Speaker C: What I really appreciate, Carey, is first of all, it feels like you became the change that you wanted to see in the world in developing your consulting business. It's like you looked around and said, there's too much competition, and we can collaborate and compete. They're not mutually exclusive propositions. They're actually mutually reinforcing. For instance, when we see two teams playing on the field of play, they don't have to go out and hate each other. They're there for the same, conceivably the same vision, and that's to bring their best self. And then hopefully all the pieces come together and the win is earned. But we have this real divisive and division in our society, and a lot of that is, of course, fostered by our capitalistic, invisible things that are pushing us towards consuming and producing at the expense of the human heart. So I really just wanted to acknowledge, I think it's really brave when we can follow our passion and do so in a way that honors our commitment to bring our full self to the world. Right, whatever and however that looks like. So thank you for being brave.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I just want to add a little bit to that, because that piece around that competition, one of the things that I had been seeing was there actually wasn't enough indigenous businesses that were around to even choose from. So a lot of the services that from an indigenous context that I was reaching out for and asking for proposals for were coming from mainstream organizations who didn't have that cultural competency piece. And so that actually impacted our ability to hop into projects that we needed to have done. And so it did feel like it was filling that gap. But I want to also say that in the four years that were in the fourth year, ill have to double check that. Yes, I think its four you'd think I'd remember because its not that many. But the reality is that so many other indigenous businesses have been so quick to support. And so, and especially with indigenous women, there are, there's a whole network of consulting companies, independent contractors, and then there's a lot of movement on LinkedIn that I've seen with indigenous owned businesses that are just so willing to build that network and be an open book for. Here's what worked for me. Here's what didn't work for me. And I didn't see any of that kind of modeling in, you know, the traditional mainstream type of, you know, corporate kind of approach. And so I think that has just been such a welcome change. Part of starting this business as well was, and I think I might have mentioned this to you at once upon a time, but I had still have this poster that says, do what makes you happy. It's this beautiful thing that I look at all of the time, and it was part of starting into the stream of work. How do I get to do the types of things that are going to make me happy on a regular basis and this whole entire community that I've been able to now be a part of where we're supporting one another. And of course, yes, there's regular competition that can come with businesses, but there's such a support element that comes first. It's collaboration versus competition, and it's so refreshing. I just. I just. I can't even. It's just great.
[00:21:49] Speaker C: Yeah, we can feel that, you know, from, from here, even though we're not in the same room together. And what I want to acknowledge is we at sport law, one of the things that we're very mindful of, you know, practicing beyond cultural competence, is this cultural humility. And so we have been approached and we have worked with indigenous led sport organizations, but we make it clear that we're bringing that colonial, non Indigenous Mindset to either a legal matter or leadership matter, and we want to learn. So in our intake, we're like, what are the values that are really important to you? What do we need to know? What are some of the readings that you would suggest that would be important for us to digest and understand before we offer our non indigenous worldview on this matter? Because that, too can be a contribution. And then, as you know, because we've reached out to you, Carey, there is like a fundamental. If they're looking for an. For instance, if an indigenous group is looking for strategic planning or whatnot, we're really hesitant to even put our names forward unless we've really been mindful and to see how we can contribute. So I think that's that pause and reflect and be intentional about what feels like we can value Add, maybe in collaboration with an indigenous led group, and we can come in as maybe a support to that group. So do you have any opinion or perspective on that, Carey?
[00:23:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that idea of coming into things, especially with a collaboration. There's all types of ways that we do knowledge exchange, and I think that seeing some of the work that is underway that has been really amazing, impactful and positive. And let's use strategic planning as an example. It does make sense to do things in collaboration. There might be something. I think what comes to mind is a network of the indigenous organizations and health services and friendship centers and things that already exist across Canada would be embedded in that type of knowledge that comes from an indigenous organization or an indigenous company that's providing that strategic lens. But if it makes sense to then look at in what ways do we have to support a strategic framework within the sport body, then it does absolutely make sense to have that with an established group who already understands all of the. Whether it's legislation or the policies or all of the positioning of government. Even so, I think it's really, it's a way of sharing an exchange of knowledge. And then I think what's really important at the end of the day is how are decisions being made? How is the work being shared? How will the approach be in some of that work as it's being conducted? So that, you know, there is that voice and footing and it's not sort of a side piece. And so I haven't really actually seen the side piece. I think any of the collaborations that we've seen and when we've been approached to work on projects, there has actually been that really true value of being able to equally contribute.
And I think it would, you know, in order to support clients and to get the best, you know, you know, most impactful work, it only makes sense that we would be doing things in collaboration. There's a way of, again, that, that, that knowledge exchange, it goes both ways. And so. Yeah, I love that.
[00:25:13] Speaker C: I love that example, Steve. It's like sharing as a new form.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: Of caring, something I think we've talked.
[00:25:21] Speaker C: About before just, just a few times. So, Carey, we'd like to make this really specific to sport now, if we can. And before we jumped on, we talked about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the 94 call to actions of which five are designated for sport. And as I shared with you, I did this research paper, and I'm not sure I was surprised because the system itself is in such depletion and constriction that adding the layering of indigenous wisdom and knowledge and being able to sit with the truth that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is demanding of all Canadians. Before we move to that reconciliation, it's, I would say, an impossible ask of a currently fractured, dying system. What seemed more invitational is for us to learn from and be in collaboration with indigenous wisdom and communities, to be able to mastermind a whole new way of being for Canadian sport, or what Steve and I have been calling sport 2.0. So you were with the aboriginal sport circle for a few years. And I'm just wondering when you bring in this, we call it a lens, but really it's just, it's a way of being, you know, this way of being that is rooted in holistic approaches, in community, in values. Just wondering, you know, what. What would be really important for our sport leaders to consider as they're trying to make sport more inclusive and holistic?
[00:27:09] Speaker B: And that's a really big question. I think there's a whole entire, you know, a national strategy that's underway to try to solve that. But I think what I found, and so I was at the aboriginal sports circle as the CEO for just over a year, and it was actually just before launching Nakanagis Consulting. So one of the things that was interesting was I was very honored to serve in that role and be able to contribute to telling the stories of celebration and highlights of all this leadership happening not only with just indigenous people individually in sport, but also with indigenous sport generally. So that was amazing. And also work on how do we break down some of the barriers and some of that would be how do we improve inclusion of mainstream sport. But I think what, what I kind of left with, and I think what still sits with me is that there's still a need for under. Like, I'll go back to truth for a second. There's the TRC, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, 94 calls to action. Yes, there's five that are specific to sport. But the truth is there's an entire network of sport that's happening in Canada that I don't think is at the, you know, forefront of conversation. There is a need for organizations and for sport bodies to look at having more inclusive policies. There's no question about that. But there's also a real need for, I think, mainstream sport to look at the actual specific indigenous sport that's underway in community already. And it's not necessarily. Not necessarily looking for ways to be included within. Within another area. Like there's, you know, the Little hockey League, then the native Hockey league, there's baseball, there's basketball leagues, there's soccer leagues that are all specific and run from indigenous communities. And I think that felt a little bit lost, you know, in some of the conversations. So part of, you know, the TRC and reading that truth and reconciliation report, it's a hard and easy report, and we might have to edit that out later or leave it in. We'll see. But what I mean by that is it's only a twelve page document, so if people haven't already read it, you know, maybe that can be one of the recommended readings. It's a quick link, so it's easy to digest because it's only twelve pages, but it's hard because you're hearing about all areas of truths in Canada that most of us haven't been made aware of until more recently. I know my kids are learning things in school nowadays, ten and twelve that we wouldn't have had when we were in school. So that truth is starting to come out. But it's not just about the five calls to action that are dedicated to support. There's a whole section on health, access to health and justice, education. And all of those actually need to be considered as we're looking at inclusion policy. So the sport might be a specific one to look at, but we can't look at it without looking at all of it. So, and when we look at all of it, those truths are hard to read. And so I guess that's what I mean by easing hard. The easy part is that it's there for us. The easy part is that the calls to action have been summarized. So you're not having to go through the entire commission report. It's 94, a twelve page document. But it is hard because the truth, the truth that we're learning about is very difficult and it's hard to understand.
And I mean, we're learning, we continue to learn every time that I'm on a new project, every time I'm in a new community, every time I'm having conversations like this, there'll be something that comes up where you're just kind of struck by this. Oh, right. I didn't realize that was happening there, too. And all the impacts and the ripple effect that would have had, I don't think that really specifically answered your question. I kind of went on a whole other stream, as I sometimes do. But I hope you're able to glean what you needed from there.
[00:30:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you so much for that, Steve. What's popping for you, Carey?
[00:30:51] Speaker A: I have two questions. One is when we talk about inclusivity, there are a lot of underrepresented groups. So from an indigenous perspective, what's something our listeners would want to know a little bit more about when we talk about that specific group of people, I.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Think it's the diversity within the indigenous group. So we say indigenous, but that means a whole entire, it means so many different things and it includes so many different people. So when we look at it from a lens of, let's say, a diversity workplace policy, Indigenous is one of the, I don't want to say check marks, but it is. So we kind of go through all of the different areas of community that we're trying to address, but that diversity exists within indigenous communities. And so we're not really getting to the core of things when we just simply say indigenous. There's very specific, you know, land based things that we need to be focused on. There's different distinctions between nations. There's also not this, you know, shared collective of people that go, we all have the same, you know, practices. We don't. We have different protocols, we have different beliefs, we have different languages. Like, it's, you know, there's so many different layers. So I think that would be the biggest thing, is that when we're looking at that, take the time to also say, what would this look like then through the lens of an indigenous woman of, you know, indigenous youth, of someone who's living on reserve or not someone who's on the west coast or in northwestern Ontario. And I think that those, that type of additional work is also what gets missed when we say the indigenous inclusion piece.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Okay, now let's, let's, let's build off that. We've done all the work. You've, you've waved your magic wand and success and inclusivity looks like, oh, well.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: But the work is, is never done. So I think that's part of it. So when we say that we're going, even if we develop what we think is the most perfect inclusive policy right now, it might not be relevant tomorrow. And that's a big thing that I'm saying. But I mean, the, the reality of having embedded practices, in having that embedded ongoing learning, the work really is not quite, quite ever done. And I just, before I try and I'm going to actually give you an answer, I know, Steve, you're like, just give me the one thing. So I will come back to that. But just before I do, I think it's just that broader. If we take a step back and go, we're looking at trying to make inclusive policies because we're just sort of accepting the fact that there's a mainstream structure out there that we're kind of a sub of. And I think that part even and of itself has to be really impact and really reflected on and kind of go, yeah, right. You know, a lot of this, you know, the way that we are right now, the way of being right now has been built on these colonized, the colonization that's happened in Canada. We are dealing with what has been historically, you know, racist policies. There's so much to have to undo in order to get where we're at right now. So it's not just one thing, but because I really do want to provide an answer. If I had a magic wand, I think I would say that we're kind of coming to the table without already having to talk about what got us here and what needed to get us here. And we're just already there. I think there again, I talked about how there's like a network of so much is happening right now today that we're missing because we're trying to get caught up so much, and there's so much to get caught up on. And there's also a fear, rightfully. There's this hesitation of if I get a, you know, if I get a little bit ahead on these policies or this reconciliation plan, what if we don't get it right? So there's a hesitation. What if we don't get it right? And I think the magic wand piece is maybe just accept that we're not going to get it right, but that we're open to continuously learning. And how do you then, you know, pivot change or, you know, kind of get uncomfortable in certain mindsets in order to keep. To keep at it and to keep working and to keep trying. I hope that helped. And I think just the final thing around, you know, the getting there and where we were yesterday is different than where we are today. The big focus that if I could change anything, it would be to look around at what's actually happening today because there is a heavy lift and there's a lot to do to understand the truth and to go back into what's happened. But then we are missing out on some of the brilliance that's happening today. So Juana Brasco page talks about this all of the time, indigenous brilliance, and it's happening today, and there's leaders and it's not, you know, we're not looking at. We need to stop looking at things through like a deficit lens of how we're going forward in things but actually celebrate what's happening in front of us today because they're there, it's there, it exists, and it's up to us, I think, to make clearer pathways to see that and to have that in the forefront of our conversations and work.
[00:35:47] Speaker C: Wow, that's a beautiful segue to, you know, thank you for being here. And you are modeling that, you know, the celebrating success stories, you know, the, the indigenous brilliance, I love that. That is everywhere around us. You know, a little story. One of the ways in which I continue my sister's legacy is through Schoolbox. And Schoolbox has partnered with indigenous communities up in northern Ontario. And there's an outdoor, for the first outdoor indigenous learning center that bears my sister's little name. And I visited that two years ago. And I have to say, Carey, you know, I've been from Nicaragua to Wabaskang, and the impact of being in a learning community alongside the children and the community and engaging in a powwow and having the feasting, it was just, I felt it in my bones. It felt so, I felt so at home, right. I felt really welcomed. And I think based on what you shared, that is the essence of cultural humility. It's our capacity to enter into something. Not knowing and letting go of this kind of outcome that we think might matter when in fact, when we are co creating, not assimilating. That's my big wish, that we actually stand shoulder to shoulder with all peoples in this reimagining around how sport can lead the way.
That's my hope, that Canadian sport could serve as an example of how we can reimagine the sport system alongside the different peoples, not assimilating them in a current system that was never designed for them in the first place. So the final little piece of nugget that you really imprinted on my heart was the work is the work.
We're never there yet. So thank you for that gift, dear Carey, so Steve, are we ready to close?
[00:37:55] Speaker A: I have lots more questions for Carey, but I do think maybe that will be for part two. Again, thank you, Carey, for making the time to record today. In the episode notes. Below you'll find some sport law blogs where you can find more information related to our conversation today. As always, thank you so much to our listeners. We are so grateful to share our vision of Sportopia with you and to elevate sport.
[00:38:21] Speaker C: As always, to have your say in Sportopia, email us at
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