Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, it's Steve Vindig at Sport Law. Leave me a message. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Hey, Steve, it's Dina. You aren't going to believe what just came across my desk. We need to chat. Give me a call.
Welcome to the latest episode of Sportopia. We're so excited to share our knowledge and have conversations about healthy human sport.
[00:00:47] Speaker C: We're delighted today to have Karen Dawmet join us today. Karen has an extensive experience in sports administration, including the General manager of the 2024 Special Olympics Canada Winter Games and manager of athletic services for the 2019 Canada Winter Games. Most recently, Karen has been chosen as the Executive director of the 2026 Great Cup. We'll be discussing career transitions with Karen, but before we do that, Dina, what is coming across your desk?
[00:01:18] Speaker B: The famous question.
Well, hi, Steve. It's always good to spend time with you and have these important conversations. Right now, even though we're going to be releasing this podcast, you know, a few months after we've recorded it, I've been knee deep immersing myself in the future of Sport Commission's the report and the recommendations, and taking in the many really wise comments and helpful comments from different groups who've been sharing their perspective on the 71. Yes, 71 recommendations that have come out of the Commissioner's report.
I am going to be joining.
I'm not sure how many people are invited, but I'll be attending the conference live.
And I'm really encouraged, Steve and Karen, because recommendation number 46 is really near and dear to my heart. It references True Sport, which is a national movement to promote fair, ethical, safe, welcoming and inclusive sport.
I was really very happy to see that the work of.
There's now thousands of True Sport champions across the country that I'm sure either in conversations with the commissioner or because of the emails that they sent in, we're advocating for a more proactive approach to the benefits of sport.
I don't believe that they're mutually exclusive, they're mutually reinforcing. So in order for us to achieve this version of Sportopia, right, this safe, welcoming, inclusive environment, we can't just put in place regulations, right, and laws and rules and restrictions. We also have to give people a sense of where we're going and why this matters most to us. And that's what I believe True Sport does. So I'm. I'm really actually hopeful, Steve and Karen, about the future for sport.
What about you, Steve? What's coming across your desk?
[00:03:14] Speaker A: Well, me Too.
[00:03:15] Speaker C: I'll be attending virtually the Future of Sport Commission on Thursday and Friday and also looking forward to the conversation about the findings, the recommendations, and a good, healthy discussion about that.
It's also September, which means it's annual general meeting month. September, October is a very busy time for, for AGMs, as is usually May and June.
So lots of those going on this week. Lots of still doing lots of ONCA compliance work and really just excited to try and get people into that realm of good governance. I actually had an intake call Friday night. I know Friday night with a client.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: Better to do on a Friday night.
[00:04:00] Speaker C: They were free and I made it happen.
And what was interesting was I have, you know, questions about governance and how do you govern and how do you want to govern? And they explained to me how they governed and it did absolutely did not align with their bylaws. So that was a very interesting conversation to say, well, your bylaws say, hey, but that's not what they do. So of course, the work that we're working with them was to get them in line with how they want to work and, and then how their governing documents align with that so they're not caught in what I like to call the gray zone.
Karen, thank you.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: That's a really good segue, Steve.
[00:04:37] Speaker C: Good segue to Karen. Karen, thank you so much for being here. We're excited to have a chat with you. What's happening with you, what's coming across your desk this week?
[00:04:47] Speaker A: Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me. So, yeah, as Dena mentioned, I am newly stepped into the role of Executive Director of Grey cup for 2026. So what's coming across my desk right now is a lot of foundational things.
We are, you know, still a little bit in the shadows of the 2025 Grade cup, which is yet to happen this November in Winnipeg. So our work behind the scenes right now is a lot of contracts, working on a lot of foundational pieces, getting things ready so that we're ready to have a presence and make a big splash at 2025 Gray cup and retain lots of fans and partners.
So, yeah, it's kind of that, that boring behind the scenes work, but really, really important stuff so that we can build something really special over the next year.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: And a bit, yeah, it's so important that foundational work, you know, Steve always likes to say this work, this foundational work usually references bylaws and the, you know, the governance documents should be boring.
But often when you get into it, you, you breathe a sigh of relief. Because it's like building a house. If you have cracks in your foundation, it doesn't matter how pretty the walls are, right. They start showing their cracks pretty fast. So, Karen, we're delighted to be here. I want to, like, dive right in. You and I connected, sadly, during some of the most challenging parts of. Of your work. Right. When you were working at Special Olympics Canada and personally supporting people through sudden death, you know, in your case, it was the death of a cherished volunteer. And then months later, you know, so sad, a young athlete, you know, died just. Just days before they were to leave for an international event.
So I'd love to know, you know, in what ways did our work together really help support you and supporting the team that you cared so much about?
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for the support that you provided us as a team through Special Olympics Team Canada as we prepared to go to the 2025 Special Olympic World Winter Games. In turn, you know, I don't think anybody entered that team or that cycle ever imagining that we'd be facing not one, but two incredibly difficult and significant losses.
I think, you know, what. What led us to that decision to how do we handle this?
You don't have an option, right?
You have to handle the situation. And it's our job as the team leadership to take care of the team and to make sure that they have the supports and everything that they need to focus and succeed and to know that they're cared for at every level. That's our job as athlete. Duty and care.
But I think what we were really able to lean back on was that we created our foundation as we started this conversation, what values we wanted to lead and guide as a team. And I think when we're faced with that tragedy, we have to take a reflective look as the leaders of the team and say, what do we have the capacity for? What is our skill set? What do we need to do right now?
It became very obvious in just moments of navigating our first loss that we need to go to external help for this.
There's only so much of our skillset and our capacity that we can offer here.
My role in this situation is really to take care of the logistical things right now.
How do we start to think strategically about next steps of how we move forward? How do we support the team? How do we fill this gap? How do we work with the international governing body and the travel agency and all these kind of yucky things you don't want to have to think about but are really real in order for me to get there, I have to also acknowledge my own grief in this, too, and have a place for us as leaders to be okay. I think I always go back to the saying of, it's a parenting analogy or often used in teaching, but the kids will be okay if the big people are okay.
The kids don't stand a chance if the big people aren't okay. In this situation, as a leader, you're the big person, so you need to make sure you're okay, and then the rest will be okay after that. So, you know, we sat there in a moment and we had a really.
We had a really strong built team with really strong mission staff, volunteers, and we had mental performance consultants on the team. But everybody was really quick to acknowledge this isn't our area of expertise.
So we started to brainstorm. And I think it was truthfully at the tip of all of our tongues. Like, we, all of us on the leadership team are such fans of this podcast, we're such fans of both you and Steve as professionals in our Canadian sports system.
And I think we were grasping at, is there someone locally already within our program that we can lean on and turn to? And then it was finally, after 15 minutes of brainstorming, can we just call Dina, who has a connection? How can we reach out?
I think, to our surprise, but also not to our surprise, you were incredibly responsive and jumped right in. And we held this ceremony for our alpine team. It was an alpine coach who we had lost initially, and it was done virtually because our team was spread out from coast to coast to coast.
And you gave us some really strong tools of how we navigate this grief and normalize the conversation, to normalize the feelings of how everyone would navigate it differently. Everyone had different stages of relationship here, and what could we take with us on this journey that we were about to head into our first training camp? I think the next week later, there was going to be an obvious missing person there. And then, how do we build upon that as we go into games? Then, very unfortunately, we found ourselves in that exact same situation again just days before we were about to leave for World Games. And this point, the team was much closer. We had tighter bonds, relationships, and, yeah, very suddenly and unexpectedly lost an athlete. And again, I think going back to that culture piece of what we built the team on and the values that we put in place, we had an Indigenous culture coach do work with our team, too, in some of the training camps. And I think forever now, I will be such a proponent of why truth and reconciliation really matters at Every level of what we do and how, when we do it authentically, what a gift it gives all of us.
We were guided through grandfather teachings and had symbolism of the eagle feather and the strength that that brought our team.
And when I had to stand on stage and address the team as everyone gathered at our staging camp in Toronto before leaving for Italy, that was a moment that some of these athletes who weren't involved in that particular sport because we're multi sport games, for some athletes, it was the first time they were hearing about the loss of their teammate. And others had been navigating this for 48 hours.
And we took the lessons that you had taught us and lessons that Brent dodging horse had taught us. And we brought eagle feathers for every single athlete. And we went back to that grandfather teaching and I held up the eagle feather and this goes back to what Brent had taught us, that when the eagle feathers frayed, when you pull down on the feather and it and it gets frayed, that's when we were dysregulated and we were in a moment of dysregulation.
And so all of our eagle feathers at that moment were frayed. As we're navigating this grief and what we know from the grandfather teaching is that when we have positive self talk, we start to smooth out the eagle feather and that's where the strength starts to come back. So we were able to take the goals that Jordan, our athlete that had passed suddenly and read them out loud and what he wanted to achieve at the games and it was to leave everything out on the ice, to have fun, to be a supportive teammate.
If we harness those things inside of us and we all carry Jordan with us, our eagle feather starts to get smooth. There's going to be moments that the grief is going to hit us like waves and our eagle feather is going to get frayed. We're going to be dysregulated.
But how can we come back to our place of strength? How can we lean on each other? I think it was through that ritual, that symbolism that we carry these eagle feathers with us throughout the entire games.
And regardless of the relationship folks may have had with Jordan or with Mel, I think it gave us something to come back to and regulate and be so strong as a team throughout.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I know that Steve's going to need a moment here because he's catching up to the incredible experience that we journey through together.
And Karen, as you're sharing with our listeners, you know, when you, when you connect with other humans in a shared experience, which is what we had.
It binds you together in such a powerful way. And then when you combine that with indigenous wisdom, which is part of some of my training, you can't help but become more humble, more resilient, more compassionate, more skillful when life goes sideways, and that it teaches you, what do we rely on? So I really love that you've referenced this deep foundational work.
It's often so underlooked and underappreciated until it really matters most.
And given today, we're talking about transition, which is part of the human experience. Right. When we die, we're in transition. But also when organizations go through transition, or like yourself, when you leave something that you loved so much, right, the Special Olympics Canada movement, you know, there's a part of you that you leave there, but then it also gives some space for what's next in this beautiful chapter of your career. So thank you for sharing all of that. That's very touching. As someone who journeyed alongside you and I, I have to admit, people can't see us, but I. I was very overtaken again when you referenced, you know, Mel and Jordan and their beautiful legacies.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: That continue to shine on through all of the people that. That love them.
[00:15:31] Speaker C: Yeah. Karen and Dina, thanks for that segue. That should be an easy one to come back from setting me setting this up to career transition. But on a serious note, Karen, you know, Dina comes to me every six months with crazy ideas that she wants to start working in the sport community. And a couple years ago, she said, well, I'm going to start talking about grief and loss in sport. And I said, you know, you're crazy. Who's going to pay for this? Who needs this? Who wants this? And just your story very much articulates that, the need for it. So I appreciate making it a bit of a reality to something that is very sometimes inconceptual.
But I do want to. I do want to transition to career transition. And I think this is important for all of us as we go through our professional lives. You started off in grassroots sport to Canada, Games, to Special Olympics.
And I always kind of.
In our pre conversation, we spoke about the work we've both done with Special Olympics. And sometimes I think that place is like Hotel California. You check in and you never leave, but you did, and you moved into the 2026 Great Cup. So how did you decide to make these transitions? How did you know it was the right time to switch?
Just talk about your experience through your professional career.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: Well, well, I guess on paper, my role of what my, my everyday is would insinuate that I've left Special Olympics. But as you said, you know, I don't think we ever really leave Special Olympics.
You know, just, just this past Friday we're having this conversation on a Monday morning and this past Friday I, I was on another podcast with a Special Olympics athlete and where we, we sat and chatted for hours after.
And you know, when I, I was presented with this opportunity to lead the 2026 Grey cup, it came as a result of my work with Special Olympics. So I, I come from the multi sport Games background where I led the 2024 Special Olympics Canada Winter Games here in Calgary.
So I worked very closely with tourism Calgary and lots of the big players here at a municipal level who bring major events to our city.
So I really think it was through that network and the success that we had through the Special Olympics Canada Winter Games that kept my name at the top of the list as tourism Calgary and the Calgary Stampeders were going after Gray cup.
And it wasn't on my bucket list or on my bingo card to necessarily do a Gray Cup. I've never, this is my first time in professional sport.
So I was very cautious entering this role. I think I maybe had a little bit of that bias that, that stereotype of what professional sport is when you spend all your time in grassroots sport and amateur sport, that maybe we look at it as like the big bad machine that is professional sport.
And it was one cup of coffee with our president here, Calgary St. Peters Jay McNeil, that I was incredibly humbled and could not have been more wrong, that it took one cup of coffee for me to realize that our values and what this organization is looking to achieve and what the future of the CFL and the future of Grey cup is really working towards, shares all the exact same values of what we did with Special Olympics Canada Winter Games in Calgary, that at the end of the day we're using major sporting events to create social impact, that we're strengthening communities, that that's what it's all about.
And for me, as a personal strategic career move, this was an opportunity for me to continue to build my profile, build my skill set in the context of Calgary and hosting major sporting events here. So while I say I've left Special Olympics Canada to come here to Grey Cup, I told our CEO at Special Olympics Canada I'm leaving to come back. My hope is that we will be in a position following the 2026 Gray cup, that my dream is that we host a Special Olympic World Winter Games here in Calgary. So this is, yeah, continuing to build that profile and the capacity of our city to host inclusively and responsibly with a dream to come back to Special Olympics in a bigger way.
[00:20:07] Speaker C: I'm curious, Karen. I've been with sport law for 23ish years and it's really kind of the only, I'll say professional job I had directly out of articling in law school.
And about 10 years into my career I was headhunted by a football organization to, to take on a CEO role.
And it was the first time that I, I had to or I guess it made me contemplate what I have, what do I want to do, where do I want to go and have that conversation with myself about do I stay at Sport Law, do I move to this football organization? And I through a whole bunch of things in my head. Quality of life, salary, vacation time, commute, type of work.
And of course I decided to and.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Dina, don't forget and I have a.
[00:20:58] Speaker C: Blood pack to, to stay on this together.
So yeah, I went through this process and it was the first time in my, you know, the first 10 years of my career I never, I loved what I was doing. I never thought about and all of a sudden I got this opportunity and I went oh, okay. Oh wow. Now I have to think about this. So I wonder what your process was through your transitions to know it was the right move for you.
[00:21:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
So I think it, it gets really deeply personal and I think it's probably very different for everybody. I think, you know, I've done a few now major games where I'm on the host side of things and when you do a contract on the hosting side of a major games or major sporting event, you know that there's an end date to your contract. Right. So you can do almost anything and sacrifice and justify every decision you're making in your personal life because you've committed to this project. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. There is only going to be one team that hosts the 2019 Canada Winter Games. There's only one team that hosts the 2024 Special Olympic Canada Games.
And you give everything that means personal sacrifice, family sacrifice or a can I guess I should say you get to define how you approach that.
But what comes at the other end of that is often burnout.
You at times might look forward to that end date when you might be able to drop your shoulders and take a breath and we talk about the Games hangover and the Games recovery.
It's often talked about from the athlete and coach side of things, but it's true from the administrator side as well.
And I have now fallen victim to it twice coming out of those major games where I've thought, all right, I'm taking a breath, I'm taking a break, I'm going to do this thing that is routine, that I know how to do.
Until then, the next major opportunity comes up and that addictive behavior of, oh, I want to do that again, that was really fun. This mundane day to day thing, well, it's great and I'm working on something really beautiful. It doesn't have that same adrenaline rush, so that's part of it. But I think to apply that filter, what I learned, I would say in this past year of coming to this decision to take this role with 20, 26 Grey cup for me really came down to a family decision.
So my husband's a firefighter with the city of Calgary. That means 24 hour shifts. We have two little boys who are six, nine years old who are in a flurry of activities and really fun and exciting stage of life.
And that, that travel away from work, that was hard at this stage of life. So my time with the national team, with Special Olympics Team Canada, while I loved what I did every single day, from a personal standpoint, that, that got really hard. And when we work in sport, we all know we give everything to it, right? That there's so much of our personal identity poured into it. And when you're doing that thing that with that end goal, you're pouring all of yourself into it, the 9 to 5 doesn't exist, the Monday to Friday doesn't exist.
So for me, it's working on local things where I'm raising my family, where they get to be a part of it. That's what matters most to me in making decisions in my career right now, that I got to experience that with the last games here in Calgary where the school program, my kids got to take it to their school on weekends when, you know, we had a lack of snow on our cross country ski venues and we had to be harvesting snow to bring my kids out every Saturday to be shoveling snow and packing it on the course. You know, that's.
You don't draw the line of what you're doing. And now in this role, I have two little boys who think their mom is the absolute coolest to be leading Grey cup, right?
That they are these massive little football fans that every night after dinner they ask if we can go play Calgary Stampeders and throw the Football around in the park. So, yeah, I think it's finding that, that event that I can really apply that lens through of do we share values? And are we going to make our community better? And what ripple effects can we create in our community by hosting this event and then taking that personal life lens of I don't want to have a start and stop of where work and family life starts and ends, but it's what is the right combination of both those things that it works for all of who. All of who I am to merge those together.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: You are so articulate, Karen. It's just such a pleasure to listen to you. And already I'm sure people are going to be taking, you know, so many notes and takeaways just based on, on what you've shared thus far. And we're not. We're not complete yet. I want to highlight something that you spoke to that I know I experience, which is the post Games blues and what I remember. So I've served on five Olympic teams and several other teams, Pan American Commonwealth Games. And I remember, you know, some of our mind leaders said to me and my colleagues, it's hard to come down from the top, you know, when you experience you're in a bubble.
People that you learn to care about really deeply. Some of my best friends are people that I traveled with to these beautiful places right across our planet.
And it's hard to describe to people what that is like. The synergy, the late nights, the early mornings, the crisis, right? All of these things are kind of like melding together in this, in this pot and the world is watching. So you are under a microscope, right? You are being kind of judged. And now more than ever with social media, there's very little room for forgiveness. So you are on this high and then you come home to your regular life as a parent, as a spouse, you know, as a. As a colleague. And it's really hard to articulate that. So we know the literature around life in transition allows people to name it and then we can tame it. So it's not by denying it or pretending that you're weak because you go through this process.
It's actually a process of untethering, right? Releasing the bonds that you've created to these people that maybe you didn't know before and to your identity as a member of something bigger than you. And I think that as leaders, if we can prepare people for the untethering process, we are helping to alleviate the compassion, or dare I say it's empathy fatigue that is a part of the process. And I think that's avoidable if we give people the recovery time and the grieving time to be able to figure out, well, who am I now that I've gone through this really beautiful transition? So I just wanted to honor that. And I feel based on what you've shared, you're also feeling that way with Special Olympics Canada, that. Hold on, just press pause. I'm going to come back at some point.
And I remember a really powerful woman who headed up the Toronto hospital. I was interviewing her for some project I was leading.
She said to me, you know, Dina, we can have it all, just not at the same time. And that gave me permission to kind of figure out what my priorities were when my babies were, you know, five, three and one. So thank you, Karen. I really appreciate that. We have a couple of other questions for people to take in and benefit from. We want to go into some practical things around career transition. So now that you've done this several times, you know, when you move from one transition to another, when you move from one culture to another, you know, and you're now the leader, you're at the pointy edge of the, of the sword. You know, there's different expectations, different pressures. We'd love to know, you know, what are some of the strategies your tried and true ones that you use to adapt quickly, to build trust and to lead with confidence in these very different.
Even though they're related environments, they are quite different.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: Yeah. If you don't mind, Dina, I'm going to take one step backwards to a comment you just made about that tethering in the games bubble, because this is, for me, this is very fresh.
I continue to volunteer with the Canada Games movement, so I do mission staff with Team Alberta. And at the time of recording this podcast, we are just coming off of the Canada summer games in St. John's where I did one of those things again, where I got in the Games bubble, even though I am now in this role with Grey cup, was able to still commit three weeks to volunteering at St. John's and that games bubble and that tethering. I think why I want to share this is that I think it's incredibly important, particularly for mothers in the Canadian sports system working in this space, that I have had incredible mentorship and leadership through our Team Alberta team, with our chef de Michons that have served over the years. That gave me the best piece of advice of that how to enter that games bubble when you're also a parent and holding that family and that career on the other end, that while you're away, we've implemented this practice that we take time in the lead up to Games where we do an Advent calendar. So anyone who is on the team that's in this mother role, we write letters that every single morning our kids wake up while we're away at Games, and they have a letter from mom, and it connects from home life to Games life and gives that merger, because you don't know when you're ever going to get to call home. And you might have three days where maybe you don't get to have that face time. And so you preemptively write those letters of, here's some. Some Team Canada socks today. And you're going to wear these while you watch on tsn, the opening ceremonies of the Games, and create those connection points.
So you do that from the personal life to the Games bubble. But then you also do that then coming out of the Games bubble, where you're untethering from that family of the people that you cared for, your Games family at Games, and as you settle back into your regular life.
So sorry, I just wanted to make mention of that because I think it's just such an important piece that I think parents in this space should know that you can be both those things and be really good at both those things, but you, like, you're not going to be the. The most present, amazing mom in that moment.
[00:31:38] Speaker B: And Karen, just. Just to start, like, just to pause on that, in 1992, I was.
I was privileged to go to the Olympic Games. They were in Barcelona. And I met, who's become a, like, one of my best friends, Penny Joyce. She's now the CEO of Diving Canada and has been for, I think, a gazillion years.
But in 1995, we went to Argentina together for the Pan Am Games. And the Advent calendar that you spoke to, she also had one. So she actually had one with her. And, you know, I remember opening up the game, you know, each of the days, and her caregiver for her daughter Kimmy, at the time had made this little reverse Advent calendar.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: Oh, that's so sweet, Mom.
[00:32:21] Speaker B: And it was like I was. I wasn't a mom yet, but I remember, like, there were some tears and just being able to support her through those experiences and seeing that, that other dimension of us, Right. And I also think it's true of the dads, right. So it's not just in the domain of the moms. It's also what can we do to support the parent inside of us that actually yearns for our children, but also knowing that we're, you know, we're gifting them the presence of someone else too. So. Yeah, so thanks for sharing that.
[00:32:51] Speaker A: So true. Yeah, so sorry to segue, I guess now back to your original question of how do we enter these, these events and these projects and set the tone? So like I've said, you know, we're, we're here for a short time, not a long time when we take on these event contracts. So what we do in this workspace is we are solving problems in incredibly high pressure, high stakes, fast paced environment where the presence of trust and a deep, meaningful relationship that we are really aligned on values is so incredibly important. But what we don't have is the benefit of years and years of working together and building that trust and building those relationships. So it is so important coming in at the start of these projects and these events that we shed that vulnerability and we get really serious about building those relationships and that human connection as a team first and that we understand personal values of each other.
What's your filter of making decisions? What life experiences have led you to, how you default in moments of stress, moments of peer celebration?
We have to hardwire that really quickly. So what I do when I bring together a team and every time someone is added onto the team is we do a values exercise. So I print out a list of 100 different words that are classified as values values and I give it as homework the night before we meet and I say, take this home and think this over and tell me what would you define as your top two personal values? And when you read through this list, you're going to want to circle 10. It's really hard to say that these are the two things that I default on when I'm in moments of conflict or when I look back and I overcame a challenging situation. This is the thing that led me through and this is what I default to when I'm making good decisions.
It takes a lot of self reflection to get to that and a lot of honesty. And then we come together the next day and we ask everyone to share.
I think what's important to note in that is that at different points in different contexts of your life, those values may shift and change a little bit.
So they're going to largely always be tied to kind of the same synonym. But it's the lens might shift a little bit.
And what that arms me with is knowing when you're in a moment of maybe dysregulation, when your lid is flipped, when you are Facing a situation or a conflict when you're maybe not showing up as your whole best self, me as the leader of this project, how, how am I acknowledging that and seeing that in you? And how do I know to bring you back to your core values that are going to show the best in you?
And how are we going to get through this together? And how do I acknowledge and notice when maybe you're not living in that? And how do I show up and best support you and then share that about me too? Right. Because you're only as good as the people around you. So I want to know that the team around me has my back and can notice and see that in me.
So it takes a lot of vulnerability to get there and for folks to be able to be open to that. And you know, and I, I insinuated it at the top of this conversation that I think I came into professional sport a little bit nervous or scared that these types of conversations can happen. I thought maybe this only happens at grassroot amateur sport where, you know, we're all used to taking safe sport training and having these really open conversations.
But I've been so humbled and I've been so wrong about some of those assumptions coming in that I did this day one with our, our president. And you know, he immediately said, this is amazing. I haven't done anything like this before. I'm so excited to share mine and hear yours. And this is great. So, you know, it starts with understanding the people on it because as I said before, you know, if the big people aren't okay, the little people don't stand a chance. And that goes to how we host an event in the community that us as the people behind it have to be okay and we have to be vulnerable. We have to lead with our values because that is how we want our partnerships to be reflected. We want to have those dynamics and relationships with our sponsors, with our venues, with the community, with the volunteers that how we show up and treat each other behind the scenes is how the event will be hosted and perceived and how we welcome people in.
[00:37:27] Speaker C: Karen, I'm curious to know. You just touched on it, but have you noticed any other cultural, environmental differences between amateur and pro sport? I actually was a CFL agent for about a decade at the beginning of my career, so I've had some, a fair bit of experience with the CFL and was all extremely positive, totally enjoyed bantering with the general managers. But I'm just curious if you, if you've noticed any difference. And you, you just mentioned bringing values into a conversation and they thought that was pretty cool. Any. Any other cool stuff?
[00:38:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, you know, I, I also lead projects with then, you know, we define our guiding principles. So once we understand each other at a human level of who's working on it, then how do we all march forward together on the same page? So what are, as an organization, our top three guiding principles that we will lead with intention in everything that we do. So here on 2026 Grey cup, got them up on my wall here. As you see me looking up, everything's led through connection, legacy and excellence.
And I think first and foremost it's connection, right? That we are all hardwired for human connection. And that's the point and purpose of the Grey cup, that we're bringing Canadians together for human connection. It's a moment of celebrating together and looking each other in the eyeballs and celebrating and embracing strangers. That we were stripping that vulnerability and we're experiencing pure joy on a common good. But I'd say the biggest thing that I'm learning from the transition from nonprofit we, when we're running a budget in a nonprofit, you want to be as close to a zero dollar budget at the end of the day, right? You want there to be some, some level of legacy that you're giving back into the community from a financial standpoint, but not too much because that shows that you didn't spend enough on the athlete experience.
So what's, what's the mind shift for me is just, I guess operationally from that point of view that we're, we're looking to have a strong financial legacy here and we're looking to generate revenue while how we do it is largely the same, but it's being profitable so that we can continue to have a healthy, strong organization here that can continue to be in a position to make really strong community impact going forward. And I think what I was maybe surprised about is feeling that revenue generation would be very transactional.
But what I am coming to learn, and I'm always happy every day to come to work, to see and feel, is that the revenue generation side of professional sport has become far more transformational, that it's based on values, that we're creating experiences for fans that are rooted in inclusion and a sense of belonging and a welcoming atmosphere. That's what fans care about. Now.
What we're creating for our sponsors and partnerships is same thing that while there's the metrics of you get this many spots on the broadcast and you have this logo placement, this signage, those are kind of Table stakes now, right, that it's of course you're going to get that brand and logo recognition, but how are you positioning my brand and my organization in a way that lets us show our values in the community on this massive platform? What are we doing to contribute to that transformational value proposition that you're setting forth in hosting this event? So the dollars follow with that, but at the end of the day, it's the same goals and values of we're creating a better Canada by hosting these major sporting events.
[00:40:59] Speaker B: What a beautiful legacy. You know, you, when Steve asked about your additional life lessons, you spoke about the legacy that you hope to create. And your words of this is about human connection. And the idea of not for profit. And for profit, if we allow the language to just dissolve into this is actually social profit. It's for the social benefit, the emotional connection, the sense of togetherness that we, we can experience when we come together. You know, one of my mentors once said, when we get it right and we used in sport becomes a tool, a force for good. We come together as neighbors and we leave as friends. And that our dear friend, Karen, that's what you're like evoking. That's the main message that, that you've inspired me with.
So thank you for, you know, sharing all of your wisdom, your compassion, your passion actually for sport. It's been such a delight to, to be with you in this way.
And, and I would offer, you know, you said so many beautiful things today, but the importance of the foundation, right, attending to our values, when we build it, they will come, is something, you know, that many people know and understand, understand. But what you've inspired us with this morning is when we build it, they will thrive.
And they is the community, the fans, the athletes, right. The country, and hopefully, you know, the other nations are looking at how we host these, these really memorable gatherings.
And finally, you know, Maya Angelou always says people aren't going to remember what you said or did, but they will remember how you made them feel. And on behalf of the team at Sport Law, you made us feel like sport is worthy to continue to invest in. So thank you for your ongoing leadership and contribution.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:42:54] Speaker B: Yeah, so in the episode notes below, you'll find some Sport Law blogs where you can find more information related to our conversation today. Thank you so much to our listeners. We're really grateful to share our vision of Sportopia with you as we all look to elevate sport.
[00:43:09] Speaker C: As always, to have your say in Sportopia. Email us at HelloPortLaw CA to let us know what you want to hear about next. Thank you, Karen. Thank you, Dina. Stay tuned for our next episode. Until then, be well.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: Sam.
