Safeguarding Sport

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, it's Steve Vindig at Sport Law. Leave me a message, I'll get back. [00:00:03] Speaker B: To you as soon as I can. Hey, Steve, it's Dina. You aren't going to believe what just came across my desk. We need to chat. Give me a call. Welcome to the latest episode of Sportopia. We're so excited to share our knowledge and have conversations about healthy human sport. [00:00:47] Speaker A: We're delighted today to have Ian Murray from Triton join us for what promises to be an informative episode on safeguarding sport. Triton is a 100% Canadian owned and operated background screening company whose mission is to create safer communities. They proudly serve NSOs, PSOs and local clubs across the country by providing a 15 minute criminal record check, social media check and digital credentials to advance SafeSport initiatives. Moreover, the team at Triton are coaches and volunteers too, and strive to keep SafeSport with secure, compliant screening solutions. [00:01:26] Speaker C: Wow, that was a lot. [00:01:27] Speaker A: Ian, we'll get to you in a moment. This, Dina, what is happening in your world? What's coming across your desk? [00:01:34] Speaker B: Well, I'm really excited actually, because I'm getting to work with a university on the design of their, you know, taking their safe sport commitments to the next level, which is, as you know, Steve, the proactive work, the culture work, the Nova profile work, the peer to peer work where we can connect coaches to each other and talk about some of the things that are heavy for us as coaches, sport coaches, and then exchange leading practices. So I was just really excited about this leader reaching out to me and saying they really want to move beyond the bare bones, right, the safe sport commitments in terms of policies and procedures and start to take it to the next level. So I love designing next level work and, and so it was a very engaging conversation, so I'm very excited about that. What about you? What's coming across your desk? [00:02:36] Speaker A: Obviously very excited to hear that you are involved in proactive work rather than reactive work, as everybody knows. I'd like to just look at my calendar and see what's happening this week. And I'm happy to say there's still a lot of bylaw work, but a little bit more of what I'll call the generic legal work. So a lot of employment contract reviews, sponsorship contract reviews. Also I'm attending a lot of AGMs this week, annual meetings of members to help support through either just providing legal support or chairing the meeting or running the voting platform to help with online voting. And the last thing I'll speak about is I'm excited about helping young Lawyers. So I have a meeting this week with a young lawyer and it's something I do quite often. I don't want to say weekly, but several times a month where I speak with young lawyers who are interested in law school, they're interested in sport law and trying to help them find their way into this area of law. It is difficult. It's a small niche market. But I do remember Dina, 23 and a half, almost 24 years. [00:03:43] Speaker B: You're aging out, my friend. [00:03:46] Speaker A: Yeah, trying to figure this out myself. So I have a lot of patience for young people looking to pursue their careers. So I do spend some time with them. [00:03:54] Speaker B: So look at you giving back. Imagine that. [00:03:57] Speaker A: Don't tell anybody. Don't tell Ian. We're really excited to have you here. This is obviously a very hot topic across the sports sector and the SafeSport initiative. First tell us what's coming across your desk and then tell us about you and Triton and all the great things that you're doing. [00:04:17] Speaker C: Yeah, thanks, Steve. So, yeah, a busy start to the summer here as well. My kids are just have wrapped up school and we're looking at, and the playoffs being over now too. We're looking at getting outside and playing some soccer. I think I got some welts on my legs from last night. My kids are getting older and older. They're an 11 year old daughter and an 8 year old son and they're endlessly competitive with one another and with me now too. So when I'm not outdoors trying to enjoy the improving weather out here in Vancouver, work's been really busy as well and really busy in a good way. You know, you touched on Triton being Canadian owned and operated. That was something that I was looking for in the next chapter of my career. And you know, I'm really happy to have, have landed at Triton. And all the tariff talk and everything in the US over the last six months or so has really just amped up the, the interest level in sourcing Canadian, finding local Canadian providers. So it's been, yeah, I know it hasn't been great for every industry out there with the, with how tumultuous the economy's been. But for us it's been, it's been pretty good with people looking to work with Canadian companies. So over the next few months we've got a bunch of different trade shows. As you know, the summer is often a trade show season, maybe a bit of a lull in August, but yeah, I feel like I'll be on a plane across the country one direction or Another quite a bit here over the next few months. [00:05:44] Speaker A: Thanks, Ian. So let's get into the, into the nitty gritty here. So can you explain to our listeners, you know, what Triton does, particularly around the intersection of sport and safety? Everybody kind of understands criminal record check, but you're providing more than just criminal record checks and other screening tools. So one, can you start with, you know, obviously start with the basics of a criminal record check and then move into some of the other scans that you're being able, that you're able to provide? [00:06:15] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. So first I'll mention that Triton's been around for just over 15 years. We celebrated our 15 year anniversary earlier this year. And yeah, I mean criminal record checks have long been a staple, as you well know, of background screening policies around sport and non profit and that, that continues to this day. So there's, there's been some innovation over the years that make ordering these things easier through a membership management system that the sport may be using. The ID verif certification has improved in terms of convenience over the last few years. You don't necessarily have to go into a post office or meet with a coach to show a driver's license anymore. A lot of this can be done online through biometrics and knowledge based authentication. So there's been some nice development there. And now what we're seeing is more interest in the, the output, the report at the end of the day, whether it just comes into a dashboard that the sport has access to. That's long been standard when you work with a third party, which is obviously a leap forward from intaking by snail mail, police certificates or just meeting with coaches at a, at a baseball diamond or, you know, all that. So it's, it's really nice to have it within a dashboard. And so I think what we've seen in the last year or two is taking that even a step further and not just having a dashboard where you can view your criminal record checks, but where other credentials are also being brought into the mix and in one place. So social media screening is a key part of that, which we can, we can chat about and you know, proof of insurance, proof that you've done your respect in sport training, you know, concussion awareness training, any other courses or credentials that you've got out there, you can pull those all into one dashboard now, which I think can vastly improve the administration of these programs, which I've had the pleasure of hearing these stories for, you know, gosh, 15 or 20 years now about these challenges in the sports sector. And now as a dad myself, going through it from the coach's perspective too, I can see how painful this could be pulling in credentials from different places. [00:08:20] Speaker A: Ian, I think it's worthwhile for our listeners to dive a little deeper into those other. So you mentioned social media scans. So criminal record check will show convictions, previous convictions and possible sentence that was assigned to it. What would we be looking at within a social media scan? [00:08:40] Speaker C: It's, it's such a good topic and, and it's not just sport organizations that, that struggle or, or wonder about this. So you know what? One of the best, I don't know if I'd call it a line, but one of the best talking points that I heard came from a sport where they said, you know, when you run criminal record checks on individuals, if they're 19 or 20 years old, the criminal record check is only looking back a year or two into their, you know, what they may have done as an adult. The social media check can be a little bit more of a current state of affairs on someone's presence. You can see how they communicate with others. You know, if there's a minor disagreement on Twitter and they fly off the deep end and are making a bunch of threats, so they're putting out a bunch of hate filled language, you know, that's obviously not a good thing. So it's not about thought control or any, any of the negatives like that, but it's just making sure that the, the personal brand they're putting out there, you know, if they're putting on a club jersey or, you know, putting on our flag and going out there, you want to make sure that they're representing the same values that your organization does. And we've seen countless examples on the, on the corporate side and the sports side where that's not always the case. And so I think one of the really important characteristics of this is, well, a criminal record check, it can be complicated, but it's somewhat binary. You know, you can look at, review the record and you can think, oh man, this is not something that this is, I don't know if this is someone we want in our organization working one on one with children that can be fairly cut and dry with the social media check. You know, I think a lot of people are grappling with is, and sorry for using tweet and some of the old vernacular here, but if you like or retweet an off color joke once a year ago, is that beyond the pale? No, probably not. But if there's a pattern of this consistent behavior, consistent, you know, targeting of certain groups online, you know, that that may tell a different story. So it is a little bit more nuanced, but I think it just gives you insight into someone's current. Current behavior, current trends. And, you know, it may not lead to you wanting to dismiss them, but at least having a conversation with them. Of, look, would you mind taking this offline? It's not consistent. I mean, and you guys are probably much more versed on how to action that. But, you know, yeah, it's. It's a very interesting conversation. And it just adds another layer of information that the criminal record check doesn't always catch. [00:11:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that, Ian. It's not always the. I always find the. The criminal record check. You know, obviously it provides you information about convictions, but for me, that's a very. It's a part of screening. And I love the extension to the social media and see how people respond in public. We have several cases that we can't talk about that deal with that. I want to ask one last question because I think it's a huge concern or misunderstanding, and then I'll turn it over to Dina. What's the difference, Ian, between a police record check and a vulnerable sector check? [00:11:40] Speaker C: Very good question as well that we get all the time. So in Canada, there are more or less three common levels of criminal record check. There's a standard criminal record check, which is searching for adult convictions. There's a second level, which in Ontario has been dubbed a criminal record and judicial matters check. Sometimes you'll see it referred to across the country as a police information check. That's the same as a standard check, but it adds a layer of additional information the local police may have that hasn't yet led to a conviction, such as warrants for arrest, absolute or conditional discharges, you know, things that have fallen short. But there's a little bit of smoke there, let's say, might be fire, but you know, all that local police information. And so that's the second level which you may also see referred to as a level two check. So where the vulnerable sector check comes in is it's potentially may include one additional item which would be pardoned or suspended records relating to a sexual offense offense. And it's. I don't want to say it's a misnomer. So it's typically the gold standard for. For screening in the sports sector. But we've come to learn over the years, obviously, that that search is a little bit more difficult to obtain from the local police. It often requires fingerprinting. There can be a lot of frustration with it. So, you know, over the years we've, we've learned a lot about what it is and what it isn't. And it's important to note that any active convictions on anyone's record are pulled in with a, with a level one or level two check. And there's actually, frankly, a lot of people that aren't old enough to even have a pardoned or suspended record like that. So, you know, the, the rules have changed a bit over the years, but more or less anybody that's been, that's been convicted of something before, I think it's March 13, 1994. So that, that, that date seems to be in stone. Finally. Some of you may have heard a date from 1986, but yeah, candidates that are, that are younger than 18 at that date, it's, it's not really possible to have a pardon defense. So it may or may not suit all or be suitable for all people. It might not add any value depending on the age of the candidate. But yeah, the quick answer to your question, Steve, is that there's one minor difference, but not insignificant about searching for pardoned offenses, but they're, they're not always disclosed. And again, people under a certain age don't have the possibility of having one too. So it's, it's a really nuanced subject matter. You may not need that level of check depending on the demographics of your, of your volunteer base. So. [00:14:22] Speaker B: Interesting. I'm really fascinated by this. And so, you know, Ian, I do a lot of crisis management support to our clients. I want to take you back to the social media scan. You know, a lot of the, the work we do when we're supporting clients in, in managing through a crisis, we will be scanning for social media and looking at, you know, people's like, how are, how is this story ways. Should we, you know, consider shifting the narrative so we can better address some of the concerns that are being raised? What I'm curious about is, you know, the, the vetting of these, of these people, like how many people are actually taking you up on the social media scan option? Because from where I'm sitting, like, is it even affordable or accessible to most people? And why give us an example of who would be a candidate that you think sport organizations should be vetting from a social media perspective? [00:15:20] Speaker C: Sure. So I think coaches, you know, across, even outside of sport, of all the, the clients that we have, it's different industries and different types of employers look for different things. So what we see in the sports sector is well across the board. There's typically three areas that are, being that you're scanning for. There's, there's, you know, illicit drug use, you know, violence, hate speech. Those are really the three I'd say main areas that most employers or organizations are concerned with. When you look at retailers, you can add animal rights activism, you can look at screening current staff for sharing trade secrets, you know, software firms, things like that. And then when you get to sport again, in addition to the base three that I mentioned, it goes more to performance enhancing drugs, gambling, those sorts of any keywords that are relevant to that as well. Those are typically additional filters that sport organizations are curious about. And so those can touch on the athletes themselves, coaches, admin, administrative officials, and that as well. So pretty much everyone, I guess is a quick answer. You may be looking for different things. You may be less concerned about your, about your, you know, thinking of somebody in a financial role. You're probably, you may not be concerned about PEDs for them, but certainly for athletes and coaches. [00:16:48] Speaker B: Right. Well, you're, you're looking for good judgment, good character. Maybe it's a character kind of scan. I totally get that. What I think is helpful though is for people to understand when you're scrubbing, you know, the analytics on social media, you're looking to see if they've been charged with or convicted of offenses related to in sport. It would be a doping issue or match manipulation or sexual misconduct, that sort of thing. Right. So it's, it's really kind of identifying things where they would be in the, and, and your police record check may or may not, right. Cover some of these things, but also their profile online, like how are they interacting, you know, basically online with their brand. And it's interesting, I would imagine that as you know, Ian, the vast majority of coaches, and I think there are three of us here right now, we are volunteer coaches in the community. So nobody's going to spend a few dollars doing this for community coaches is what I'm guessing. You're speaking more likely to people who would be in higher profile positions. That's where people are going to spend some of their additional money to vet these candidates. Would that be accurate? [00:18:01] Speaker C: Yeah, that would be. You know, we've also seen, we work with some of the national sport organizations as well that are, that are screening their, their athletes. So, you know, men's and women's programs, whether it's a one off tournament that you get together for every March or an annual program that everyone's A part throughout. So you did ask about cost as well before. So we do see with the criminal record check, sometimes the, the NSO or PSO or the club would cover the cost. Sometimes they'll put the cost onto the, to the applicant or athlete with social media screening that's typically covered by the organization. And you know, it's all done with the consent of the individual. Of course, it's just pulling in the publicly available information. And we do see about 75 or 80% of the red flags are from, from Twitter or X. And I, I think I chalk that up to, you know, if you take a professional athlete for example, like I'll pick on poor Sidney Crosby here just as an example or Connor McDavid. I mean their Facebook and Instagram profiles are probably locked down and quite private, but Twitter or X is probably the one platform where they actually do. The intention of that platform or that profile is to interact with the broader community and put thoughts out there. So I think that's typically why we see the most activity on that, on that platform. [00:19:25] Speaker B: So fascinating. Thank you, thank you for all of that. You did address my question. So you get people's permission as part of the selection process to go and review their online presence. Did I get that right? [00:19:37] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, that's obviously a helpful part compliance wise and some organizations are really on the nose about it. So when you're filling out your forms as a, as a coach or an athlete and you know, your criminal record checks probably a part of it and there would be one additional page asking for consent for this and some even take it a step further and say actually provide us with your, your handles on these, on these platforms. So some are really, really good about making it a, I guess a two way process and so when that report comes back, it'll pull in. And this is the nice thing too by the way, about if any, if anybody's wondering why it's a good idea for a third party to do this rather than having a, you know, a head of risk or administration do this themselves, having that, that buffer is, is really helpful to protect your sport organization because now if you go onto somebody's Facebook pa, their sexual orientation, political affiliation, pregnancy status, all kinds of protected class information, the onus is now on you to prove that you didn't see that and that didn't play a role into your decision to employ them or not if you did find a red flag. So the, the term that I use quite a bit is you can't unring the bell. So it's good that you're not the one looking at that and that you leverage a third party like us at Triton to do that. We just relay the information that would be of importance to you when making a hiring decision. Not. Not those prot. Elements that you don't need to know. [00:21:08] Speaker B: That's a good tagline, Steve. They're bell ringers. [00:21:12] Speaker A: And unring that bell. You know, Ian, you bring up a great point about, you know, utilizing a third party. Years ago, one of the first cases I worked on, probably over 20 years ago, involved a sexual conduct of a coach and minor athletes. And that coach was banned from sport. And fast forward 15 years later, I was chatting with a client. Really, we're just chatting. How's your day going? What's new? And they mentioned they had hired somebody. And I said, oh, maybe I know who it is. Who. Who was it? And they had said the person's name from 15 years ago. And I asked bluntly, did you do a police record check? Because I knew he was convicted. They said, yes. And I said, well, what did it say? And it came back clear. And I said, well, if I were you, I would read, you know, check that again. And turns out they found out he provided them a fraudulent police record check. I'm not going to speculate how he got it, but it ended up being fraud, fraudulent. And he was charged with fraud and they didn't hire him. And really that just occurred because of just chatting with myself and the client, and it was something we were engaged in 15 years before. So I do like the idea of a third party to make sure that the documents provided are accurate and valid. But I wonder, Ian, if you could speak to other gaps that you might see in the screening process within the sport community. [00:22:34] Speaker C: Yeah, well, certainly, just as you were sharing that story, Steve, it reminded me of two. Two quick examples. So one is, yeah, as my hairline suggests, I've been in the industry for about 20 years, and, you know, the most common way that these checks, the criminal checks have been done, is to go into your local police station and get a certificate. And I had one for. For any of your listeners that have heard me before, you've probably heard this story, but we had someone in Halifax, that coach produced a check, and it was a pure stroke of luck that the administrator at the local club had caught this. But the signature on this coach's police certificate was from one of the best friends of this administrator. And she thought, that's weird. I thought my friend Karen had retired from the police service A couple of years ago. And so she called her friend and said, is there any reason why your signature would be on a check that says it was issued last week? But you know, I thought, I thought you left a couple of years ago. And she said, yeah, you should, you should call the Halifax police. That's, that's a bit sketchy. And so anyway, long story short, in this, in this case what had happened was that male coach had taken a police certificate that his wife had obtained a year or two prior, scanned it and I'm probably dating myself saying Photoshopped, but photoshopped the, the certificate to change the name and the date of issue. But thankfully the Halifax police were able to reverse engineer it because there was still a serial number at the top which he didn't know he needed to change. So that's how they were able to track what he had done. He hadn't created it from scratch, he had actually taken his wife's and just changed a couple of fields there. So but had that administrator not caught the signature or the name of the civilian staff member on that certificate? You know, they may be coaching. So I don't know the moral of the story there or the outcome if, if he had convictions that he was hiding or if he was just, just too cheap to spend the 30 or $50 to get that check done. But yeah, that, that I always think of that as the perils of a paper based process. So certainly the third party can really benefit or, sorry, really be beneficial. Steve, the second story that comes to mind that I always like to reinforce is that the way that background screening is done in Canada is not the same as it's done in other parts of the world. And another one of my famous stories I always tell was a, a coach that was based in the US and the Canadian sport org, as you may have done typically in Canada, say go get a check and then the coach will probably go to Google and find or chat GPT now and find their local police service or a third party like Triton that can work for Canada because if you send someone to the local police station, the check is going to scan across the entire country and you can take some confidence that it's a thorough ch. The US doesn't really work that way. The US is done by state, by county. It's very narrow in terms of the search. So anyway, when the sport organization gave this coach the instructions of go get your check he'd received, the coach had provided a check where he resided now, which was New Mexico and it said that he was clear going back the last seven years within that state. And so there's that false assumption as a Canadian that if you get a certificate with the Ottawa Police Service crest on their, you can have confidence, as I said, that it scanned the entire country. It scanned CPIC across the board. Not so in the US it was just looking at New Mexico records. So a little birdie within the sport organization said, I thought this coach was in the news recently. And sure enough, you could Google this coach and yeah, type in his name and you could see that there were arrest records and convictions for the coach actually engaging in sexual activity with his athletes. And so they were obviously very concerned about this. And, and that's when, when I got the call saying, you know, what happened here? We asked this coach to get a check. It came back as clear. And that's when we had to educate this, the sport org that, you know, that was looking just, you know, it's got the New Mexico letterhead on it. That's all. It was searching. It wasn't searching Texas. And based on the article you shared, these offenses were committed in Texas. So we, we did a proper US check where you run a Social Security number trace, you find out where they've lived anywhere in the country and you drill down to every one of those count states and sure enough, you know, the list came back a mile long. Everything that you found online in the news stories was, it was part of the records. So clarity. [00:27:02] Speaker A: Ian, does Triton have the ability to do a US Search? [00:27:05] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, we do. And then pretty much every country around the world, you know, some countries have different laws in terms of access and what will disclose for what roles. But yeah, a screening provider can do that for you around the world. And that's also a good, a good, I'd say common misconception. So there is screening that is done when someone immigrates to Canada. But it's not all or nothing. As I understand when someone comes to Canada, first of all, there are different rules. If you come through regular channels or if you come in as a refugee, the bar may be a little bit different. But as in my reading, as I understand it, when you arrive to Canada, Canadian officials will look at what your criminal record does, may have been back in your home country, and then they will relate that offence to the Canadian criminal code. And if the Canadian criminal code offense carries a punishment of a certain level, I think it's five years imprisonment or more, they won't let you in. But if it's an offence that carries a Penalty of less than five years, you're allowed in. So even outside of sport for a moment, I've had this conversations with financial institutions who ask, you know, Welsh, do we need to screen international candidates for a criminal record check? Because they wouldn't be allowed into Canada if they had something. Right. And so this is where that nuanced answer comes in. Because fraud in the Canadian criminal code has no minimum or, sorry, no minimum. No maximum penalty. It's, it's quite often, I think like six months or less, like it doesn't hit that five year bar. So you know, you could be hiring a candidate to work at a bank that's got a record a mile long for fraud and based on the rules, they're allowed into Canada with that. So, you know, you can't take for granted that someone else has done all the work and that they wouldn't be here if they were completely clean. So yeah, it's important to do checks. Just because they're in Canada now doesn't mean that they, they didn't do something in their home country. [00:28:57] Speaker A: It's been really educational. Ian, I wonder, do you see working with sport national, provincial, local, territorial. What other potential gaps or mistakes do you see sport potentially doing or should be aware of? Obviously we've spoke about, you know, true copies. Accurate copies. [00:29:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:17] Speaker A: Metal. But anything else? [00:29:20] Speaker C: Yeah, True copy is definitely one of the big ones. I think most sports are good at re. Screening as well. Every, every one, two or three years. I see a lot of policies that have that in there that's, that's good to have, I think. One thing, I don't hear of this as much as I used to. One thing that has concerned me over time is I'd run into a club where they have a policy but they don't necessarily follow it. I'll hear things like, well, the, the local police or sorry, you know, the coach applied for a criminal record check. So we'll, we'll let you get started anyways while we wait. Because you probably wouldn't have applied if you had something. That's probably the biggest misconception. So we see, you know, 2% of all candidates have records. Just the fact that they applied means absolutely nothing. It shouldn't give you any false sense of security that there's no record at play there. [00:30:11] Speaker B: I was going to ask you about that. So, you know, what is the percentage of people that come back in the context of sport with problematic record checks or social media, you know, reviews? [00:30:23] Speaker C: Yeah, well, for, for the criminal record check side, the good news is it's lower than most other industries. So let's not be too hard on ourselves in the sport community. But yeah, it's typically about 1, maybe 2% that have a red flag. That doesn't mean that's how many are not permitted to, to work in the sector, but that's how many would typically be reviewed and adjudicated for that social media screening. Gosh, that, that's a bit more of a gray area in terms of the percentages because when we produce a report we may surface a variety of tweets, but I think it's in the eye of the beholder as to if it's beyond the pale or warrants of conversation. So I think a lot. I'll give you an example too in terms of how these are done. So on the social media screening side, everyone loves talking about AI these days. Our industry utilizes AI to help review all the data that's out there in social media. So one of my favorite examples within sport, I mentioned earlier in our conversation that sports will look at gambling. So some of the keywords you might look at there would be things like the line or the spread. Well, over the years we've seen initially AI will pull in things where athletes say stop the spread of COVID 19. So it'll cast a wide net and pull a lot in. And you know, then we've got human intervention as well that looks over this before we give the report to our, to our clients. But you know, another one I mentioned the line, you know, the puck crossed the line, gold medals on the line. So sometimes those initially get pulled in and then a human set eyes will look over it and say, okay, this is nothing to be concerned about. So you know, at the end of the day it's probably a similar range of 1 or 2% that have something that's, that's quite concerning. But initially it might look like 10% or more. So we try to, in some of our, the groups that we work with want a very wide net cast. I'll give you maybe a non sport example. So I mentioned earlier animal rights activism on retail. That's pretty cut and dry. If there's a flag for certain keywords there, that's, that's of great concern to, to that employer if they think that this person wants access to the warehouse to destroy inventory and things like that. On the other hand, political parties take a much broader approach to this. So they might ask us to include, if they're screening political candidates, they'll include keywords like Justin Trudeau, Jackmeet, Singh, Any, you know, recent leaders names. They just want to cast a very wide net and then they'll want to review a lot just to see what type of chatter this candidate is engaged in online. So they're not laser focused on specific things, but they want to just pull in all the political chatter and review it themselves so that the hit rates can vary quite a bit depending on the, the keywords and that you're searching for. [00:33:19] Speaker B: I think it's really important that a, the companies disclose that this is part of their practice and as you said earlier, it might dissuade people from applying. Right. Criminals or you know, people who are mal intended need not apply. So if you make that clear, then that's part of the process. So hopefully that kind of triages people who are, you know, ill intended. But I also think back to a story where I was supporting a client in, in basically unringing the bell. So they had hired a coach and then, you know, a little whisper campaign here came to their attention and they realized they could no longer hire the coach. So there was some really interesting decisions, navigating those kind of churning waters because it had the leadership reflect on who they were and what they stood for. And they, you know, bottom line, at the end they were like, we don't, we just can't risk bringing who was putting this out into the universe and bringing them into our culture. And we often see that, Ian, where, you know, in our Canadian culture we have a certain, it is different across all sports, but we do see a general kind of assumption around goodwill and respectful engagement. And yet in other cultures, you know, there's a more transactional relationship between coaches and athletes and the power, you know, struggles that ensue. So I, I do think it's really helpful that your practices allow people to reflect on the kind of culture they want to put out there and be really mindful about ensuring they're walking the talk, you know, something as critical as, as a coach, athlete relationship, for instance. [00:35:05] Speaker C: Yeah, Dina, you actually reminded me of something I think going back to one of Steve's earlier questions about recommendations that we have. So I imagine you would share this, but I did say that some organizations don't always adhere to their policy, which is something I'd love to see tightened up. But at a minimum, having a policy is really good. Obviously it can help serve as a deterrent. You know, years ago when background screening was first becoming popular, which really, by the way, for any historians of the industry, really picked up In Canada after 9, 11, we would have I remember the largest grocery store chains in the country. A couple of them started doing criminal record checks on new hires. And by the time we were having a conversation with the laggard of the group, the last one they had said to us, we've kind of noticed that our applicant pool a lot more have criminal records because everyone else is doing this check and we don't say that we're going to do this check. And so we seem to get the leftovers. Yeah, the leftovers, yeah. So we, yeah, that we find that that's where I think re screening is really important too. So I know most sports are pretty good about checking every three years, but here's one I think where this can really help. So if you screen well. So let's pick on me as an example. If I'm screened today and I'm clear, but I get into trouble six months down the road, I might never share that with the sport organization. But if I know that there's another criminal record check around the corner in a year or two, then we find that the candidates are. The individual is much more likely to disclose what happened to the sport org to say, look, just want to give you a heads up that next time my chroma architecture comes around, you're going to see that there's something on there and then you can have that conversation and discuss how to reasonable accommodation or whatever the case may be. So we do find that having a policy of re screening helps create dialogue between the coach or athlete and the sport to ensure that you're aware of something before you see it in the newspaper. [00:37:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just effective monitoring. It's like when we do our strategic plans, if you name something without putting in place monitoring, communication, reporting back the feedback loops, it's like at some point, it's like, why are you doing this? So, you know, as we wind down our time together, one of the things that you've shared with us is that your team also coaches and volunteers in sport and I, I know Steve and I are curious, you know, how does this lived experience shape your approach to the kinds of services and, and delivery with the partners that you're providing these service to in sport? [00:37:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, one of the reasons I really like Triton is that our mission is about creating safer communities and I, I want it to be as convenient as possible for coaches as well. You know, over the last few years, earlier in my career, before I had kids, I would hear these stories and they resonated with me. But now it's a lived experience. So When I have volunteered at my son's preschool and I've had to get a check, I, you know, I got a letter saying, oh, I need. I need to take further steps to verify my identity. And, you know, I might be confused with. With a sex offender. Right. And, I mean, I've had government security clearances for decades, but, you know, I kind of anticipated that this might happen. So, you know, now I've kind of lived through that experience. And as a coach, you know, I've. With a son and daughter in different sports almost every year. [00:38:30] Speaker A: They're. [00:38:30] Speaker C: They're doing these samplers every year, whether it's baseball or soccer or hockey. And I find myself having to register through all these different platforms. And I. I get the. Not just the frustration with the time it takes to get a criminal record check, but just having to pull in all these credentials from different platforms. So I think that just ratchets up my desire to try to solve this in the sport community, because now it's not just anecdotes I'm hearing from colleagues and clients, but it's a lived experience. So we shared that pain together. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Ian, if Deena and I were starting an nso, a pso, a tso, a club, I always like the Alphabet soup in sport. [00:39:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:11] Speaker A: How do we go about working with Triton, establishing a relationship, trying to figure out what we want to do, what screens do we want to be doing? I like the fact that you've said you're able to integrate other checks, online trainings, things like that. I'm a new client. How do I sign up? [00:39:31] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I mean, the fastest thing is probably to go to our website, TritonCanada CA. You can get a background check on yourself. You can sign up as an organization. It's free to sign up as an organization. It's entirely pay as you go, so there's no commitment. If you decide that in some cases, the local police are terrific partners and they'll drop off a stack of forms at Coaches night, and it's free. And if you've got a sweetheart deal like that where you live, that's great. Most of us aren't that lucky, so. Yeah. And the cost is really manageable. It's around $20 or so for each of those checks that we've been talking about today. So you can hop to the website and there's lots of resources on there as well about vulnerable sector screening and just best practices for screening. And of course, you can also reach out to me. I'm on the about section of the website, but you could also find me on LinkedIn. I do have some quirky Scottish spelling to my first name, so I should be easy to find on LinkedIn as well. If you want to send me a message there if you have any questions. [00:40:33] Speaker B: Wonderful. Well, listen, Ian, thank you so much for sharing your insights. We can feel how genuine and thoughtful your contribution is and how much it means to you actually having. We're all parents here on the call, so we do support your vision of safer communities. And it does start with these kind of practical administrative necessities that are really a must do now if we want to run these holistic organizations. So thank you so much for the work that you do and the way you go about doing it. In the episode notes below you'll find some sport law blogs where you can find more information related to our conversation today. Thank you so much to our listeners. We're so grateful to share our vision of Sportopia with you as we all look to elevate sport. [00:41:23] Speaker A: We will include Ian's LinkedIn profile as well as well as Triton's web address if you're looking to find that. As always, to have your say in Sport topia, email us at hello at Sport SportLaw CA to let us know what you want to hear about next. Stay tuned for our next episode. Until then, be well. Thanks Dina. Really appreciate your time Ian, you as well. [00:41:45] Speaker C: Thank you both. Sam.