Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, it's Steve Indig at sport law. Leave me a message. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Hey, Steve, it's Dena. You aren't going to believe what just came across my desk. We need to chat. Give me a call.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: Welcome to the latest episode of Sportopia. We're so excited to share our knowledge and have conversations about healthy human sport.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Today we have our latest exemplar, Thomas Cumberbatch, and he's joining us to discuss living into our full potential. Thomas is CEO of Godspeed Communication, and we had the pleasure of working with Thomas in the redesign of the sport law brand. It wasn't just work, it was soulwork. Thomas and his team brought us through a hero's journey experience that allowed us to reimagine how our organization could be reflected in a simpler brand promise. Through his guidance, our team at sport Law were engaged in deliberate conversations that Thomas used to inspire the creative work, and we received a soul guide to help us ensure our brand integrity. It was such an inspiring journey that we wanted to invite him on our podcast to share a little bit more about his beautiful work, his way of being, and the stories. I can't wait to hear about some of the stories. So before we get to that, Steve, what is coming across your desk?
[00:01:37] Speaker A: So, in pre production, Dean, I told you I wasn't going to tell you what I was going to talk about here because I wanted to get your reaction live, and I want to dive into your world, which is rare for me.
Over the weekend, I played in a basketball tournament and hurt myself, probably pretty badly right now. It's still swollen. I haven't figured out the outcome of the injury to my knee.
My body went right, my knee went left, and then I went down. I was able to walk out of the gym, but I can start to reflect on being able to compete, being able to participate, and that potentially being different in the future is something you like to work in that space. When we talk about, you label it as grief, but it could be also labeled as transition from your identity as a high performance athlete. Now, of course, those days for me at a high performance level ended about 25 years ago, but I still maintain activity, I still maintain participation, and somewhat at a higher level, I would say for old men leagues or old people leagues, but, you know, having a significant injury, and I, again, don't know the extent of it. It could be a couple weeks or it could be a couple months. I can start seeing how people, when they lose that. That's been a big part of their life. And for me, it's been, you know, almost 40 years of being active in sport. How that may change and how that's having an impact or could have an impact on me is if I can't play basketball anymore, if I can't play, you know, active sports, that would be a significant change for me. So I'm starting to see your world a little bit.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Oh, well, thank you, Steve. I. Thanks for sharing that. I'm sorry that that happened. And you use the right word, it's life in transition. And what people don't understand is, you know, why does it hurt so much when our known way of being, our known world, somehow shifts and changes? And it hurts because we become attached to people in places and values and dreams and goals and experiences. And when that dissolves or is shattered or is removed or is ended, then the natural experience is to grieve. And that's why one of our offerings is this grief and loss essentials workshop. And I'm so committed to bringing more of this to the canadian sports system because, as you just. Steve, you know, athletes are often, in their formative years of development, have grown so attached, and they don't have life experience, usually beyond sport. Right. The Paralympians, Olympians, high level athletes, it's all they've known. So you can understand why when there's been a sudden injury or they don't make the team, or their bodies are starting to say, I'm done, even if they've chosen to, to end their career in sport, the pain that surfaces is natural, involuntary, and a necessary part of the human experience. So, you know, I really feel for you, and I know a really good grief, Coach Steve. So, you know, if you need a little bit of love, you know where to call me.
[00:05:02] Speaker A: Well, my next step is diagnosis, and then I'll get back to you.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: Okay. My calendar is filling up.
[00:05:08] Speaker C: Steve is hoping that he doesn't have to become your mentee in that area.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Absolutely, Thomas, you're right. We're going to get to you in a second. Thomas. Hold on. Dina, what's going on with you? What's coming across your desk?
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Well, you know, I've mentioned this before, but because we're getting more and more clients in sport that are coming to us for proactive solutions, and it's so beautiful that we're talking with Thomas about this today. So, as I think you know, we have several practitioners at that are trained in a psychometric tool called the Nova profile. And I'm certified in several tools I'm also a coach, a leadership coach. So I can share with you that in my experience, the Nova profile is one of the best ways to show your love and appreciation for other people and for yourself. So this week I'm heading and doing it en which I'm really excited about with national team coaches and IST. So the support team behind the team and the technical geniuses in this organization. So I'll probably end up doing about 30 people, one in Quebec City and one in Montreal. And we are so excited because Loren is heading to Calgary to do some work in English with the same team. And we've done the staff, we've taken them into a deep dive to better understand themselves, which is, you know, the number one rule of leadership really has to be, you know, leader, know thyself. Then our capacity to feel into the other human and express empathy is more available to us. And then the third, you know, thing that manifests itself is our capacity to be more skillful given the context and the situation and the environment. Right. Because then we're not in fight flight, freeze faint mode, right. We're actually living into the experience and have so much more discernment show up fully and, you know, as humanly as possible. So we're very excited because this is the kind of work that really galvanizes me and it's a reflection of my deep commitment to help humans suffer less. So, so that's what's on my desk this week. And so Thomas, thank you for being so patient. We're just so delighted to have you join us and travel with Steve and I today. So what's coming across your desk?
[00:07:35] Speaker C: So I'm traveling at the end of the week to Washington, going to Howard University.
A few months ago we started an amazing project with Habitat for Humanity International and we created a museum exhibit. And basically what happened was that we launched it in March in Atlanta at their annual conference. And it did so well that people started requesting the exhibit, different affiliates around the world, and that basically started a whole like a whirlwind, a new project, basically a set of new projects where we needed to create a bunch of these exhibits. And right there on the spot at the conference, we added a button to the, to the exhibit website that said, request this exhibit so we could track the requests. And by the end of the conference, the week long conference, we had nearly 50 requests.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:08:27] Speaker C: So the first activation outside of the conference is Washington. So I'll be there at the end of the week. So this week, across my desk is preparing for that exhibit, for Washington. We're also working with a really interesting urban planning company in Toronto called Black Planning Project. And what they do is they partner with architects, with real estate developers, with other planners, with governments to make sure that. That neighborhoods that are inhabit, that are inhabited by black communities are built properly, are built with the community in mind, that there's agency and voice as people tear down buildings and put up new ones and things like that. They work with various stakeholders in all communities to make sure that there are something, what we call together now, beautiful black worlds for all people living in all communities. Yeah. So that's what I'm working on this week as well. Just finishing up that brand. It's a lot of fun.
[00:09:25] Speaker B: So much fun.
[00:09:26] Speaker A: That's really cool. Thomas, can you. Can you start at the beginning? Tell us your story.
What did you used to do? What did you always want to do? And being the founding member of Godspeed, how did all these steps take you there?
[00:09:40] Speaker C: Thanks for asking, Steve. I'm actually going to start with your weekend.
That's where it started for me, was I was playing football.
Football was my world. I was Thomas the football player from 13 until 26 and or 25. And the reality one day hit me that I wouldn't play again. And, you know, I got hurt. And that was it.
And I'll tell you, that sent me into, at that point, the only time I could. I can. I could say that I was in a real depression. Like other points in my life, I've been depressed, but this was me actually dealing with a state of being. And that state of being was I was depressed. I didn't really know who I was. I was Thomas the football player. And I was being forced to really dig deep and find myself. And I did. Thank God I did. And what really, what happened was I asked myself a simple question. I said, when was I the happiest and not on a football field? And my answer to myself was with a camera in my hand. Because in my second last year of university, I took a photography elective black and white photography course and fell in love with photography. I had a Doberman at the time, and I used to photograph him all the time. He was my subject. I just shoot pictures of him all day. And my teammates were like, where in the world is Thomas? He's not coming back to McCullough's place to play halo all the time. Where is he? Well, I was in the library, in the dark room. I just couldn't get enough of it. So I said to my dad, because I was broke, I had no money. Lived in my parents basement. I said, dad, can I borrow 1500 bucks? He's like, why? I said, because I need to buy a camera. He goes, why? To spend $1,500 on a camera? I'm like, because I want to be a photographer. He goes, okay. So he took me to future shop. He got me the camera, and the rest is history. I basically started shooting. I shot everything. I shot weddings. I shot portraits. I shot. I even did a few infant shoots. I was just shooting all the time. I used to drive my mom crazy. She'd be like, in the kitchen making dinner, and I'd be taking pictures where she's like, why are you in here with this camera?
But I just fell in love with it. I became passionate about it the way that I was passionate about football. And what ended up happening was and how Godspeed actually came to be in the form it's in today is I started putting my work out on Facebook so my friends would see my work. Their parents, who own businesses would see my work. I would shoot for businesses to get referred, and next thing you know, I'm, like, traveling all over the place shooting photo and video. But I knew that whatever I created, I wanted it to mean something. So when I would meet with these people, I started asking them deep questions about their business or their union, if I was shooting a wedding or whatnot. I wanted to understand the depths of the story so that I could deliver something that told the story visually that solved maybe an organizational challenge or problem or objective visually. And the questions I was asking, people kept saying, oh, my gosh. No one's ever asked me that before. Or we went through a process with our agency, and even our agency didn't ask us these questions. I kept hearing that over and over again. I said, you know what? Maybe I'm onto something. So I took this line of questioning. I developed a system, the sole rebel brand system. And really, ultimately, we grew into a full service firm, building brands and 600 plus projects later. Here we are today.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Wow. I just love that Steve Sole Rebels because you and I kind of feel like we were, well, maybe rebels with a cause. You know, we were really motivated to be in service of a sector that has continued to be harmed. You know, hurt people, hurt people, hurt sectors, and systems hurt people, too. So. Just so delighted to hear your story of your why. And I remember you telling me a little bit more about that. And, you know, I can feel into, it's a bit of a thread, right from Steve's knee to, you know, your career ending experience. And the depression that can set in is actually grief. You know, it looks and sounds like and smells like grief. It is grief. We just don't use the right language to express, and. And maybe that's what we are so grateful to you for. Thomas was helping us find the right language to express, you know, what. What mattered most to us, who we were, as we continue to evolve as a company from our humble beginnings in 1992 with our two founders. And then all of a sudden, we're 20 people strong, trying to be in service of a system and a sector and the people and the athletes and coaches and leaders that we care so deeply about. So maybe if you personalize it here, share with the Steve and I what you most loved about working with us.
[00:14:58] Speaker C: You know what?
This might sound cliche, but what I loved most about working with you all was actually you. You people were incredible to work with. And the reason why I say that is because you came into the process really desiring the final outcome that we ended up with. And you gave to the process, and you gave to our team, and you gave to me everything that was required. See, I tell people that the process that we journey through with our partners, it's not simple, because I'm not looking for something topical. I'm looking for something deep. I'm looking for something at the level of the soul. Now, I'm not looking for something heady. I'm looking for who you are. And that exploration of self is one that requires people to be committed to have trust. I mean, I wasn't just asking you all questions about the business. I was asking you questions about you. And at the beginning, you didn't know me from Adam, but you gave me the trust, and you collaborated with our team throughout the entire process. And that's what I love the most about our time together. Now, I'm extremely proud of the work that we created together, but really, what comes to mind first is working with you all. And what I saw, too, is that you'd already started doing this work, which is not typical for the people who we work with. A lot of times they come into work like this, and they haven't really gone through deep steps to determine who they are. They just really, a lot of them are in a place of. It's weird. It's almost juxtaposing, but almost grief and excitement. It's like we can't move forward. It's agonizing, but I'm excited to find and discover who I am. But because of your abilities, because of your training as an organization, you naturally have some of these deep conversations. So it was like speaking with the team members, working with you. You got it from the beginning because of the realm of thought that you approached this Athenae. So that's what I enjoyed the most, was just actually being at the time of pandemic, we couldn't even really see each other in person. Was being in calls with you, getting to know you, all bantering ideas back and forth. It was very collaborative as well. You wouldn't say, hey, Thomas, I don't know if this idea works or I don't think it works. And then that's it. It was, hey, you know what? Let's explore this.
Let's dig deeper in this train of thought. It was like I had a strategic collaborator throughout the entire process as well. So that was unique for us. It's not like that with everyone because some people just come to us and they're like, help me.
And they're relying on us to really leave the energy throughout the entire process. But I feel like there was a matching of energy together that was really powerful.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: My favorite part, Thomas, was the anticipation of your shoes matching your hat. And every time that we saw you, it was different. So that your work on making that happen, that's hilarious.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: So you had Steve at your trainers and your hat and your nice dress, and you had me at your soul. So between the two of us, isn't that the story of our friendship, Steve?
[00:18:34] Speaker A: It's where 30,000ft meets 3000 or 3ft. Right? Thomas, we know you've worked with us, obviously, and you've worked with other sport organizations. Are there some tools or advice that you can give our clients, sport laws clients on, on how to find their soul? I mean, one of the big hot words in sport this today is culture, culture, culture, culture.
And I think that's something that you help people define, is what is their culture, what is their soul? What and how do they make, how do they live that? How do they bring it to life? You know, and I really think sport needs that right now, big time.
[00:19:15] Speaker C: You know, we at Godspeed, we define culture as your values, beliefs and behaviors. I think it's important for organizations and individuals and sports to start there. You know, when we ask ourselves, like, who am I? That's such a huge question. It's a massive question. Probably the biggest question a human being can ask themselves because every bit of that answer touches every part of your life and your consciousness, and it's one that you'll probably ask forever. I know. I'm still asking myself that question. And you know what's funny is that I have different answers at different points in my life. But one of the greatest places to start is actually there with culture. It's your values, your beliefs, and your behaviors. So asking yourself, what do I value morally? What is important? What do I think is precious? What do I believe? What are my philosophies? What do I believe is right? What do I believe is wrong? What are things that I believe that I'm actually not sure that I truly believe, but I say and I feel somewhere in my consciousness, and then behaviors, behaviors, both being realistic and aspirational, how do I want to engage the world when I'm in a room? How am I taking space in that room? How am I holding space in that room? How am I sharing space and giving space in that room? Those are. Those things are very, very important. And I think that's a great place to start, because if someone were to go through that train of those trains of thought and write those things down, I think most people would be surprised as to what ends up on the paper.
That's a really good place to start. And then once those start to map themselves out as you kind of see what those look like, then you can ask yourself, well, with all of this, what is my big dream for my life, for my organization?
What's my vision? That's what Godspeed calls the vision, is the big dream. And then you can start to ask yourself, what's my daily, how. How do I accomplish that vision daily? And that's what we call the mission. That's when you start to pull these things together. But I think the first thing that any, you know, sports organization leader individual needs to come to terms with is that this is ongoing work. You know, we created that soul guide. I'm sure that that soul guide, if we were to write it today, is even richer and deeper and more grand and all those things. Right. So it's something that we do on an ongoing basis.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I just love that. It's, you know, this tagline we know sport came out of one of those really deliberate conversations. Like, I think you might have asked, like, what do you do best in the world? I'm like, well, we know sport. Right, Steve, we were in this really effortless conversation with our guide here, you, Thomas, and I really appreciate the who am I? Who are we? You know, what do we stand for? What do we believe in? And then how are we actually putting that into action so that there is congruence between our espoused statements of belief, and then how we're showing up every day. And interestingly enough, we just gathered as a group, you know, as a. As a team. We're 20 people now, and we acknowledge, like, when you're. When you go from a team of four to and you, there's, like, this constriction and expansion, right? At sport law, there's always been a core, but when you grow, as one of our team members said, there are growing pains, and instead of, like, disavowing it, just normalize it, naturalize it. And then how do we ensure that these systems and structures that we are putting in place can evolve so that our internal mission, which is to help our people thrive, is actually realized? And unless you ask them, which can be a little bit scary sometimes. Right, Thomas, when you. The work that we do around culture is we encourage our clients to be brave enough and compassionate enough and trusting enough that if you ask people what their lived experience is, then you have to be prepared to receive it. So I often will ask clients, what's your receiving muscle?
Can you actually receive and be touched by others?
And that capacity not always there. So often we'll say to people, if you cannot publish the results of what your survey, your culture survey, or your employee wellness survey, if you cannot share with transparency what people are saying, then that's where it gets really sticky. Right? Because then the culture starts to implode on itself, and then your capacity to live into your mission becomes so much more difficult. Does that resonate?
[00:24:06] Speaker C: Big time. I like that idea of the received piece of. Recently started studying the heart a little bit like the human heart, and it has a give valve and a receive valve. And it's so important that, you know, the heart, it pulls in the blood and then gives that blood back to the same body. And that received peace is so important because it really defines and determines the way that you then give, the way that you, in the values, beliefs, and behaviors framework, the way that you behave, the way you engage your people. So that's very powerful. Yeah, I love that. Big time.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I would say, as we wind down our conversation, one of the things that's popping for me is my core values are courage, compassion, and community.
And when I was able to strip away all these other things, that. That would communicate what I stand for.
It's almost freeing to the human soul when you can distill it down to language that can actually touch another human's heart. And whether you're a human or you're a system that has humans in it. The prime directive is to strip away that language that's fluffy and really inconsequential to distill it to that core value proposition of, this is what we stand for. And when you do that, people feel it in their bones, right? They feel that you're being authentic. And when they feel that, they feel safer and their sympathetic system starts to move into rest and digest. And you are friend, not foe.
And that's why your work is so important, because we communicate through the spoken world word, right? Through our actions, which are often experienced and felt and through images.
So it's so important to get that language right, which you are masterful in.
[00:26:13] Speaker C: Thank you. I appreciate that. I was having a discussion with a creative director a couple of weeks ago, and, you know, I was explaining that the foundation to any great brand or communication is the. Is the written word. I explained that a designer has a very difficult time creating images without words. And if someone doesn't give a designer the words, then that designer will hear a word inside of them first before they start to create.
Not in every situation, but in many situations. Not for all people, not all artists, but for many.
The written word, having language, the importance of language.
I mean, I could talk all day about it because ultimately it opens up thought. That's what language does. It allows us to dig deeper into what we're thinking. And sometimes all you need is one word, an opening, a word that just sparks a thought, and it actually turns into movements. Start with a word. Someone says something, and it's like, whoa. When we know sport came, I remember that moment when, when I heard that in that meeting, I physically reacted. And you asked me, what is it? And I said, I can't tell you right now, because I was like, inside. I was like, that's it. Like, that's it. That's it. And, and the word know is was, for me at the time, the most powerful of all the words.
It wasn't just knowing in here, it was knowing in your soul, in your spirit. It was. It was also, um. The no for us was is empathetic. It's like when you're sitting with somebody who's, who's in sport, what you're saying to them as well is, I can feel what you feel.
And that's why it was so powerful. It wasn't just, oh, we know sport, and we actually talked about the possibility of people perceiving it as you being almost arrogant.
[00:28:26] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:28:27] Speaker C: I was like, the brand. You have the whole brand experience to help them understand what it really means.
I felt like it was very powerful. And of course, you used it so beautifully, but the words are powerful. You know, we built the brand around that we did.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: And, you know, Steve as. So, Thomas, you're such a gift, right? You are such a light. And one of the additional gifts that you just gave me in this moment is we have these three values, right, that you helped us curate. One of them is stewardship and the other is delivery. And in between the two is empathy. And what the gift that you just gave me is, you know, Steve and I. Steve will often say I'm the yang to his yang, right? Or I'm 30,000ft up and he's 3ft. In this moment. I have a different relationship now with two of the values and the one that connects the two of us in this really beautiful partnership, right. The stewardship is a lot that drives me. Like, how do we help be in service of the sector? And then Steve's gift is like, how do we make really beautiful work together and get stuff done and be in the moment with them 2ft off the ground? But what connects us, and often our team is in that beautiful place of empathy. So thanks for speaking my love language this morning.
[00:29:47] Speaker C: Awesome. Well, that resonated very clearly when I had the opportunity to meet you all.
[00:29:53] Speaker A: So, yeah, Thomas, I get the last question.
Dean and I just completed a national tour where we met with sport organizations across the country. We completed 13 stops and one of the things we asked everybody who participated is, what's your wish for sport? And I know sport was a lot for you as an adolescent and a young adult and a little bit professionally. And now you have young kids who are likely going to get into sport. So I'm really curious as to what your wish is for sport.
[00:30:26] Speaker C: Wow, that's such a profound question. It's often my favorite one because you said wish. It's like I live, I'm 30,000ft, you know that. So I love playing there.
I'm going to preface my answer with the fact that we are in the process right now bringing an incredible young man onto our team as a senior account executive and strategist who literally just retired like a couple months ago from the CFL. And right now, and a lot of it, the seed was actually planted. And while we were working on your work on your project was I had never seen sport from your perspective. Never. I was an athlete playing or I was coaching. I've never seen it from your perspective. So it blew me away to see how you or how you engage in sport from a similar perspective that I engage with my clients in. And I was like, one day I want to work in sport. Like, I want to establish a vertical in Godspeed that works in sport. And that's what we're going to be doing. I'm going to be doing with this, this ex CFL player. And, you know, one of the things I asked him was what, like, needs to change? You're just, you're walking off the field like you're a month off the field. What needs to change? And he was just like, you know, it's, it's just so cutthroat. Like, you are literally a number. Like, literally. And if you have a bad day, it's not like, oh, you're having a bad day. Let's talk about how we can make your days better. It's like, make sure that tomorrow your day is better, almost like, or else, right? That's how sports is in sports. So hearing him reminded me of what it was like when I played my last football and someone just brought me to an office and said, we traded you. And I was like, I have no agency. I have no decision over this. Nothing. And that's when I stopped playing. I was like, I'm not gonna. I can't. I can't allow this to happen to me. It felt like slavery to me. And I said, you know what? I'm not going to do this.
So my wish for sport is that the institutions or organizations at the top, that the coaches on the teams, that the athletes and then the communities that watch them can find, can truly find a north star that they can all connect around. It's so important for us to see that. It's very important that in sport, that everyone acknowledges that it's about people. It's about people. And winning has to be about people. Because when winning is about trophies and money and more sponsorships, then people get forgotten. And what ends up happening is that that disconnect between corporation, team, coach, player and community gets wider and wider and wider and wider and wider. So then you have these stadiums that are empty because the team is not winning. When we all know that regardless of whether a team wins or lose, it is super fun to be in the stands watching a game, listening to music, eating hot dogs, watching people dance, and watching people drop passes or miss shots, too, it's like, it's. There's an experience that has to be about humanity. My dream for sport is that humanity becomes the win.
[00:34:06] Speaker B: Wow. Okay, so they can't see me, but I'm like, so deeply touched. Great question, Steve. And, you know, whoever's listening, pick up the phone, go check out Thomas's team. Godspeed and this beautiful work. Because from us to all of you, we need more stewards and impasse like you, Thomas, to be helping sport thrive. So we're just so deeply grateful for you, too, you know, the work that you did with us and that allows us to do more of this beautiful work together. So thank you from the bottom of our hearts for inviting us into your, your world. Very, very touched. So in the episode notes below, you're going to find some Sportlaw blogs where you can find more information related to our conversation today. We'll also link to Thomas's organization so you can go and check out his beautiful work. Thank you so much to our listeners. We're really grateful to share our vision of Sportopia with you as we elevate sport.
[00:35:07] Speaker A: As always, to have your say in Sportopia, email us at Helloportlaw, CA or on social media atlawca to let us know what you want to hear about next. Stay tuned for our next episode. Thank you, Dina. Thank you, Thomas. See you next time.
