Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, it's Steve Vindig at Sport Law. Leave me a message, I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Hey, Steve, it's Dina. You aren't going to believe what just came across my desk. We need to chat. Give me a call.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: Foreign welcome to the latest episode of Sportopia. We're so excited to share our knowledge and have conversations about healthy human sport.
Today, Dena and I will be taking a look back at the highlights of 2024 and our aspirations for 2025. But before we get there, Dina, the infamous question, what is coming across your desk this week?
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Oh, it's so nice to be back, Steve, and having this conversation with you. I love it. For me, it's a time of year where I can kind of pause, integrate, let go of things that have maybe weighed me down or also kind of be in conscious completion, you know, like the, the ability to say goodbye to things that actually served me so that I make room for something more. So as a leadership coach and actually as a, as a life celebrant, because I'm now trained in that modality as well. I love to help people transition, you know, from one way of being to another. So what I've noticed what's coming across my desk is not a lot because we're just beginning the new year and with a blank slate in front of me, I'm becoming a lot more choiceful of what is it that I want to say yes to? What are the projects that light me up? What, what are the kinds of things that no longer serve me? And then, as you know, we have a commitment at Sport Law to ensure that the right people are supporting our clients. So what I'm really excited about is we have such an amazing roster of people that work with us and it, it really lifts my heart knowing that I can, I can receive a request to do some work with a client and say, actually I think the best person on our team is not me, it's someone else. And that's going to free up more of the space for me to do some of the higher level reimagining. We're going to pick that up in our conversation today.
Some of the, the envisioning work that, that really speaks to my heart and, and, and maybe some more work around writing and, and helping to do some leadership development and design for sport leaders. So that's, that's what's, you know, been on my desk as I pick up the pen for, for this year. What about you? Fresh off the beach from Costa Rica.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Well, as they say, in winter you have to dig yourself out of the snow. And in some respects I feel that way too. Dina having to having been off for a couple weeks, which was amazing and a great opportunity to refresh and spend time with family and friends. Now, of course you come back to all the email and the work that that accumulated during that time. And also being our fiscal year end comes with all the financial reporting and preparation of our tax return and making sure everybody on our team is compensated correctly is really something that'll be taking up my time for the next week. But I did like the opportunity to disconnect. I've said this before on the podcast, sometimes we get disconnected for what motivates us to do the work that we do. And I always remind myself of this one time I was on a soccer pitch and There was about 200 Tim Hortons Timbit kids playing ball or playing soccer. And that kind of reminds us why we do what we do. Not necessarily about always the gold medal or the high performance program, but just seeing kids active. So I like having the opportunity to take some time off, reflect on the year we've had and the year that we want to have moving forward. So it was really nice to come back and refreshed and let's get back into it, you know. Dina, for you, what are some of the highlights from 2024?
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah, thank you, Steve. Well, first of all, thank you for being the money guy.
People who know me know that it's not my favorite thing in the world to spend time on. And I know not only are you really good at it, but I know it's brings you a sense of completion and your ability to be precise with the numbers and pay attention to all of this. I'm just so grateful to you that you do that.
So some of the things that I'm tracking well, I want to start by acknowledging, you know, about two and a half years ago I, I started this series and I didn't know it was going to be a series, but I called it Reimagining Sport. And I think, you know, because of my somewhat unique experience, I've worked both inside the sector. I've worked for an NSO and msos and then, you know, helped to shape a national movement around values based sport for the first part of my career. And then I opened up my own little shop and then of course joined the center for Sport Law, which has become sport law over 15 years ago now. But I'm also, you know, I was a researcher, right. I did my Master's in leadership and a different way of leading. And I'm still a university student, so I do have, I think, an interesting voice to contribute to the ongoing conversation about a sector in transition. And the first thing I would offer is the sector is in transition, but so is the rest of the world. So while we in sport might feel that it's only happening to us as a grief doula, I spent a lot of time in the healthcare field as well. And I would say that the. The sector of healthcare is in transition as well. And you as a lawyer would say that the legal.
The. The legal system and sector is also in transition. So I think it's really important to normalize what we are experiencing so that people don't feel so overwhelmed or that it's only happening to us. So that's really important to me fundamentally. And I would say that I think as we look ahead, I know we'll get into that. But one of the things that I've appreciated the most about this last year and a half actually, was completing the Hope on the Horizon Tour.
You know, it started out of this deep desire to connect boots on the ground with the. The people who are straddling both universes, right? The national scene and then also the community scene. That's the provincial and territorial sport organization. So as you and I traveled across the country, you know, one of the things that was so inspiring and heart lifting was being able to connect with the people who are really helping to make sport happen.
So that was really inspiring, and it was inspiring to complete that. You know, we traveled to 11 different sites across the country and we're able to connect with, I think, over 800 different leaders.
So I'm really proud, Steve, that we had that opportunity to connect with people.
And then I would say the other thing that really speaks to me over this last year is I'm doing a lot more crisis support.
So, yes, I'm helping people navigate turbulent waters, and that might be a reputational crisis, an HR crisis. Also, though, people are turning to me for support and guidance when someone dies.
So, and the feedback I'm receiving from people, and I'll give you a couple of examples, one had to do with a, you know, a young athlete in the community who was tragically killed the same day as the Goodreau brothers. And it was a bike accident, if you can believe it. So just helping her coaches, the. The executive kind of navigate, how are we going to support this young athlete, you know, the team, her teammates, and then also, you know, the coaches and the Ripple out effect. They're a small community in Cornwall, so everybody knew about this, this experience. So that brought me tremendous joy. And then, you know, on, On a Different Universe, a national spirit sport organization who, whose longtime volunteer who had just been announced to the team, he died.
And, and so he died. Though what we found out about this beautiful man is he died just receiving this highest honor where he was nominated to an international team as part of the Canadian team mission staff. And I brought all of the, the mission staff that were mostly affected together and we held like a vigil and an honoring ceremony. And because the athletes were Special Olympians, we invited his athletes and the athletes that were most affected and they were able to voice their deep sorrow immediately, which is so important. So I have to say, those are some of the things that really stood out for me last year. What about you?
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Well, I'll start with the HOPE Tour as well. I mean, the fact that we were able to reach out to sport leaders and administrators across the country was, to be blunt, cool. It was something we hadn't been able to do because of COVID for years and, and a lot of times people would comment about it was the first time them getting together to see each other, to hear each other. And that message that we kept receiving was, we're kind of all in the same boat. Yeah, the media might be rowing or basketball or volleyball, but we're all in the same boat. So it was interesting to hear how we need to break down the silos that exist in sport to share resources, to share ideas, to share things moving forward. So it was just really nice to get to see people again and to hear that a lot of the concerns were very common, even in the Northwest Territories or Nunavut, as they are in Ontario. So it was a really great learning to hear from our people, from the people in sport about, you know, what's keeping them at night and hopefully trying to create solutions to that.
You know, working in the volunteer sector, of course, we do a lot of work at night on the weekends, and when I have to do that, of course it's family time. And I say, oh, I have to go, I have a call. And my kids who are 13 and 11 will say, well, where are you going? What are you talking about? And after a couple weeks of that query, they said, you're just going to talk about bylaws, aren't you? And that's what they think that I do on a full time basis, which is somewhat true.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: Impressive. Steve, are you saying you're 11 and 13 year old knowing, know what a bylaw is now.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: I don't know if they know what it is, but they know, they know what I'm going to talk about. And you know, here in Ontario, with the amendment to the not for profit legislation we ended up assisting, I don't even know what the final number is. 2 to 300 organizations on rewriting their bylaws and updating their governance and membership classes and voting rights. And I think that work is going to continue to grow. Even though ONCA is technically done, a lot of people probably are still unaware of it.
The other thing I really spent a lot of time is, is promoting amalgamation. And we keep talking about the lack of resources in sport or the lack of volunteers that are trying to participate or engage in sport. And, you know, an organization with a thousand athletes can have the same board as 10 organizations with 100 athletes. So I'm still really advocating. And it makes my heart sing when I get a call and saying, oh, we're talking about amalgamating with the club next door or the regional districts are deciding to amalgamate to assume a larger portion of geography. It just makes my heart sing to hear that we continue to move in that direction to, to really stop cutting the pie into, into so many slices. And the last thing I'll talk about, Tina, was the Sport Commission. So I was asked to be interviewed by the Sport Commission about six weeks ago.
And when they asked me to do it, of course I was a little apprehensive and wasn't sure I was walking into a friendly environment or a hostile environment. And about two minutes into it, I recognized that the group they put together was really, really cared about sport, really wanted to make a difference in sport and really wanted to create recommendations to improve sport. And it was quite invigorating and interesting to talk about what sport could look like and what's the next. What can we do to keep moving sport forward and what can we do to make it better? And it was just, I had, I think I was allocated an hour and after an hour and 20 minutes they said, you have to go. And I was like, I can still, I have more. Let's keep talking. And it was really exciting to have that proactive conversation, which, you know, I don't get to do very often, but is very motivating to me to say, like, what can we do to. To make things move forward, to make things better? So we've talked, Dina, about 20, 24, and we always joke with each other that you're 30,000ft and I'm three feet. So I want to hear the 30,000 foot view of what is going to happen in 2025.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Well, how long do you have? Hold on to your boots. Yeah, it's my favorite question. You know, every one of us is different, right? We have different personalities, different motivations. And for me, when I'm at my best, I'm thinking it feels like I have a crystal ball and I can peer into the crystal ball, informed by my life experience, of course, my core values, but also research, right? Evidence. And, and I love learning. I, I do. I think it's one of my indelible traits is just this curious mind. I don't know how many of our listeners know that I was trained as a journalist, right. So, and I then I translated that kind of more technical mindset into a communication professional, you know, experience. But that curiosity is kind of baked deep inside of me. And so as I peer into the future, what are some of the things that I'm seeing inside this crys? Well, maybe I'll start with, with the future of sport commission. So, you know, for years now, I referenced it in the Reimagining a Sport. Even before that, I wrote a blog around this idea of having a commission, of giving the sector an opportunity to pause and examine the system. Right. And so in that blog, I'm taking you back almost four years now, Steve. I used some of the language around the Dubin inquiry because again, you know, not many people may know this, but in my thesis in journalism school, I actually did the whole thesis on the Dubin inquiry and I remember it's, I still have it in my bookshelf. I'm pointing to it right now, dog eared and highlighted, Dubin said, we don't have a doping issue, we have a moral crisis.
As I peer into the future, I guess alongside that curious mind is a hopeful heart. My high hope for the commission is that we aren't going to replicate an institutional approach to safeguarding sport. My high hope is that we examine all of this and get underneath the presenting issues, right, the symptoms, and go deeper underneath that to expose the root causes.
So the theory, the hypothesis that we used way back before we created true sport, because at the time I was working with the ccs, was a theory of change that went something like this. If we identify the core values that ought to be embedded in the sports system, which we did, we asked Canadians and there were four of them. Fairness, fun, excellence and inclusion. So now we have the ingredients for, to create, to shape the system.
So if we start from a place of values. And then we ask ourselves, where do we want to go? What does sportopia look like? And so. And then inspired by the values, right? Nourished by the values, and then inspired by a shared vision, we can use that to inform the design of the structure which is our governance system.
My hope and what I can predict over the next year with the Future of Sport Commission is there's going to be a lot of time now examining the system that was designed in the 70s in preparation for the Olympic Games. What I would really hope is that people can move through this liminal space that we're in, that we're navigating with a curious mind and an open heart, with a view of wanting to restore faith inside the system, to make amends when things went sideways, and then to be open enough to ask ourselves, how would we shape the system now if we were invited to do that? So a couple of things that. That come to mind for me is I think we need to uncouple.
We need to consciously uncouple.
That's from Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin. Elite sport. So what we know is Olympic Paralympic sport from community sport.
I think we're trying to force fit too many things. It's like, for example, having the university system have ownership over the. The education of children and communities.
So what would that look like? So for me, there's an invitation for us to maybe privatize Olympic Paralympic sport and bring in corporate dollars, because when our athletes shine on the podium internationally, it serves a different purpose. We know from research that when athletes do well internationally, it doesn't translate into the masses participating in community. And so for me, and again, I'm not saying it's the. It's the one right way, but I do think that an exploration of how would we. What would it look like if we uncoupled NSOs from community sport?
What would that even look like? And what would be the strengths of that system? And then what are the limitations? So I have that as a curiosity. The other thing that I would look at is we often say, and this is in the TrueSport report, what sport can do. That sport is this fundamental experience that can shape lives and transform communities. In the UN Declaration, it talks about sport as being a fundamental right for children, right, that we can use sport as a way of creating resourceful and resilient children and youth. So I believe that sports should, if we actually believe that this is true, that sports should be then institutionalized as a right, not a privilege and again, I know the lawyer news going to go, yeah, keep smoking what you're smoking.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: Well, that's why I'm laughing, Dita, because I love the fact that you come up with these ideas and then I'm sitting there at three feet going, okay, what does that look like? And what's the corporate structure and what is the board size and what's the staffing and what's their jurisdiction like? I just love how we can banter about different views but end up in the same place.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: Exactly. And before we get into the details, I think we need to kind of converge around, well, where do we want to go? And for me, again, it's just the invitation to the powerful question, what would a sports system look like if it was a privilege and a right, not a privilege? What would that even look like? What would the shape be? How would that benefit the children and youth in communities who are often disenfranchised? Right. So I think that that's a really cool thing that we could explore. What. How would we shape the system differently? And then I have two more things. One is the investment in the development of leaders. So I'm a leadership coach, right? And that just means I have years of experience and academic training and I'm, I'm part of a international group of other coaches who are trained in the art and science of human development. And what I would say, which is so curious for me, the. The evolution of coaching, leadership coaching, or what some people know as executive coaching, was inspired by sport, Right? And it kind of came about in the 70s and then formalized in the 80s. And there's something called the International Coach Federation. So, so we have all of this.
And yet in sport there's very little attention to the development, the ongoing investment in the humans other than the athlete coach relationship. And yes, the CEAC Coaching association of Canada has put so much time and effort into the professionalization of coaching and the investment of coaching as a profession, which is amazing. But very little time and attention has gone into the ongoing development in a consistent way to the leaders and the board of directors and their developmental journey as humans. So I believe that that should be part of the KPIs. The key performance indicators is what is your developmental plan as a CEO? What's your developmental plan as a coach? What's your developmental plan as an athlete? What's your developmental plan as a coordinator, as a board of director? And then what are the things you're going to do that's going to help you along your leadership journey? In my Humble opinion. Everyone is a leader, right? They're just situated at different levels. And then finally I think one of the things I'm tracking is communication. So it takes me back to my roots, I think in the last four years. Part of that is, is the hangover from the pandemic. Part of this is the trauma that all of us have experienced because of the pandemic. Also the overwhelm around the state of the world. I do think that we need to shift the script on the narrative that we're sharing. So when I say this, I know that some people may bristle. I'm a truth teller, right? I've been advocating for healthy human sports since I started working in sport. And I know that early on I was one of the voices that championed athlete rights and protection, right. I go back to the early 90s on this with people like Ann Peel and Lori Johnstone. So my lived experience in sport would say that we have to center the sport experience around the human, not just around one of the people inside the sport ecosystem. So from my perspective, we need to ensure that all of sport is healthy for all of the players inside the sport ecosystem. And I think that we need to start telling those stories. So alongside some of the limitations in the system which are contribute, the contributing factor is the outdated system. I think what I'm most excited about is reframing also the good stories that exist in this board system right now. And I would challenge the journalists out there to come in and ask balanced questions around not only what isn't working well in this outdated, depleted system that is on its deathbed, but invite also will tell me stories of what is working. So that's, that's what I, I'm hoping we're going to see more of in 2025. Steve, what about you?
[00:25:08] Speaker A: Well, I agree with you on the, on the communications part. We both got involved in sport because of the benefits of sport and whether it was performance on the field or camaraderie or work ethic or just all the great benefits that come with it do sometimes are not, are not magnified. And I would like to see the communication, the trend of the story start to change. Sport is definitely all not bad. And that's kind of what we see a lot in the newspapers unfortunately, rather than the good things.
So I hope that changes because I know I'm sitting here because of the benefits sport has provided me as a person, as an athlete, and now as a professional and watching it through the eyes of my children. It's all been very positive for them. As well. So I agree with you there.
I'm going to bring it down, of course, to a little bit lower level, to the, to the ground. And I, I really think there's going to continue to be an evolution of those things. I've already spoken about a little bit. Governance. I think people are always going to be reviewing their governance. I think people are going to continue to potentially look at amalgamation and can we have a bigger pie together with the same amount of people? So I really am excited to keep working on that. I also believe sport is going to be, I don't want to use the word mandated, but that's the one that's coming to my mind is we're going to tell you, either through government or through NSO or pso, how to manage your organization. And here and again in Ontario with the legislative changes, people always ask me, well, what's the change between the old act and the new act? And the old act is a reflection. Flexible.
Notice of an annual meeting will be in accordance with your bylaws. Onkka says notice of an AGM will be 10 to 50 days. It's prescribed. And we're starting to become more prescribed, which I'm okay with because I think if we start putting parameters around how we govern how we operate, we will start creating consistency. We'll start breaking those silos down. I, I say this all the time and, and I have lots of examples of it, but when we draft a code of conduct, a code of conduct says be a good person. That's really what it says, of course, in seven pages instead of one line, be a good person. But why is it we need different codes of conduct for different sports and I would argue that we probably don't. Yeah, there might be a line or two different, but 99.9% of it says be a good person, be a good athlete, be a good coach, be a good volunteer. So I do think this mandation or these obligations that will be placed on sport I think are going to be for the good. I think change is needed and sometimes voting one, voting oneself off the island is a bit challenging, particularly when a long term volunteer has been there. We have seen 10, 20, 30, 40 years and it is really a big part of their identity and part of their, their life. And letting go or doing things differently is challenging. And this might be one of the ways in which we can make that happen.
I. We don't swear a lot on our podcast, Dina, but you probably heard me say this before and in sport the shit runs uphill. So if Our club system is not able to manage their shit. It goes uphill to the provincial or territorial body and then all the way up to the NSO and maybe to the SDRCC and arbitration and all these terrible places we don't want to be. So I don't mind the mandation as long as we can create consistent, quality, good sport, fun sport, as you've alluded to. So I do see that as a trend. The last thing I'll talk about is, is, you know, the safesport trend, the complaint management trend.
We're already starting to see it where PSOs are taking over all complaint management on behalf of their clubs, their leagues, their districts. They are normally under a provincial insurance program. So what happens at the local level may end up leading to a claim at the provincial level. And so I've seen several organizations, particularly at the provincial and territorial level, say clubs, you will no longer deal with complaints. They will all come to the provincial body. We've hired an independent third party to manage that process, and we're kind of getting out of the complaint business. We're going to outsource it. And I think that trend is going to continue. You talk about the investment and development of leaders, and we've said this on the podcast before, being a sport leader, I, I want to say, I don't want to say impossible, because nothing's impossible. But again, you've heard me rattle off the list of expertise you have to have in human resources and in trans inclusion, equity, diversity, privacy, confidentiality, conflict of interest, human resources, employment, law. And that's not even talking about sport itself. So we recognize that being a sport leader is challenging. So I, I do think outsourcing things is, is probably the way to go. I understand the monetary crisis or the monetary problems that may exist, but again, amalgamation, let's do this together.
And I think that there's a possibility to.
Again, something we've advocated here on this podcast is putting people into positions of strength and being able to do things they want to do and that they're good at. And we talk about this me and you internally. Dina, I have no interest in writing a comms plan or crisis communications opinion because I don't do it enough to, to make it something I can roll off the top of my, off the top of my head. You want bylaws? Give me 15 minutes. I, I can do that. So I do see the value in putting people into positions of strength, and I hope we continue to do that because I think that's what's going to make sport Better. Let's break down those walls, let's break down those silos, let's amalgamate, let's look at putting people into positions of strength and, and keep doing what we're doing. So I am excited for the future. I hope we're coming out of the, you know, the, the microscope that sports been under probably for the last four or five years and start working on progressing towards the positive and talking about that more than, than the negative.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: I really appreciate how you and I come at, you know, questions from a different door, but under, we're always kind of aligned in the fundamental principles, right, that, that shape the outcomes that we're, we're moving towards. So one of the things that I'm inspired to do in 2025 and I, I haven't really asked for your permission yet to do this, so I'm unveiling.
[00:32:05] Speaker A: It here on the pod.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: Strap on your boots, buddy.
I, I, I study under like he's a world renowned poet. His name is David White. And that practice of inviting poetry into my life, it's like right up there with doing a daily yoga practice. And it really shifts my energy when I'm connecting to language and metaphor and words that speak to my heart. So as you were talking Steve, I thought, well, what would it look like if, you know, at the end of a podcast, if so inspired. I just read, you know, either a snippet or a poem that, that's kind of flowing through me because I read so many poems. So this one comes from Carolyn Miskinac and her story is quite beautiful. She came into my life maybe about four or five years ago and I purchased, I ended up buying like 50 of her little poetry books and her, her, the title of this book, this collection is called Shaping Pearls. And you inspired me with that because a pearl kind of has to, you have to rub the first, you have to go deep and you find the oyster and then you have to, you know, pry it open and then you have to kind of polish it, right? There's a lot of work to get to the pearl that is hidden and often, you know, forgotten, dismissed. And I think that that's what sport is. You know, it's this pearl that can make such a difference. And so my hope is that maybe we, we move through this transformation period that we're in with hope and possibility and also with a commitment to own the areas that we caused harm. There's room for both, right? I think our indigenous elders and, and communities t can teach us about how to reconcile, right, to make Whole again. But first you have to own the truth, and then you can move to reconciliation. So this poem is called Metamorphosis, which means to be in transition. Think of the caterpillar to the butterfly. So here's what she says about being in change. Metamorphosis could be your middle name. You shift bones in fascinating ways, reshaping as life moves in constant flux. And this is how the world truly works, in fluid steps as the birthing and dying of seasons, ocean waves, and moon phases. You move like this, too, though not always as graceful. Transformation, you've learned, is not a tender task. It's mostly ugly and disjointing before the turning out of something beautiful.
[00:34:50] Speaker A: You never know what to say. You never know what to say after a gong.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: Well, I just thought, you know, in other realms that I play in, the sound of that chime is so like. It reverberates. And I think what our participants, the messages that pour in, you know, of gratitude, people sending us little notes to say thank you, keep having these kinds of conversations, the questions that people want us to explore. It just fills my heart. And so trying to find different modalities to speak to the angst that we're in and also remain hopeful that that's a skill that we can build. It's a. It's kind of like a quality of presence, Steve, that I hope that you and I model that we can be both truth tellers, but also hopeful guides, you know, believing that this. This system, the sports system is worth it. Right. It's worth the effort for us to both, you know, restore health and also have an eye to the future. Right. I think that's what I hold on to when times are tough.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: It's kind of like the summary Dina will try and wrap up, but, you know, summary and parting words as we enter 2025, I always talk about, let's say, policy review. And as we've spoke about before, 20 years ago, we would have recommend, recommended five policies, and in 2024, 2025, we'd recommend 20 to 30 policies because of the evolution of society. And people would routinely ask me, how often should we review the policies? And I said, well, if you do two every year and you have 20, that takes 10 years.
So what I'm trying to express to everybody who's listening is that, look, change is difficult. It's hard, and there's a lot to do but pick two things or three things, or pick the things that you can accomplish.
[00:36:46] Speaker B: We.
[00:36:47] Speaker A: I always say we are not everything for everybody. And. And I think we need to stand by that and pick those two or three things and move the, move the needle forward and be open minded, as you've said, to be hopeful. And maybe the way we're doing it isn't the way we need to continue to do it. And you know what? Failing's okay. It's okay. And I, you know, when we make a mistake and we say sorry to somebody, usually the anger comes down several notches because we're not contentious, we're not arguing about it. Once you say I'm sorry, you acknowledge the mistake. And I, I think we can do that and we try something and if we doesn't go well, well, we can always revert back. So I, I, my parting words for as we enter 2025 is, is to be open minded, to try, but try not to tackle everything at once. It'll become overwhelming. Pick those two or three or four things and keep that needle moving. Because if I accomplish those three this year, then I can do three more next year and, and three more. And as we know, Dina, and in, in house here, we always look back and, and say, well, we were going to do this and we were going to do that. And I always think we never do anything, but then recognize we've done lots. So I'll leave you the last word. What do you think that we, how we can inspire our listeners entering 2025?
[00:38:10] Speaker B: Well, for once I'll be really concise, no prefacing.
I would say when we mess up, we fess up and then we make it right.
And it complements what you're saying. You know, if we, if we commit to doing the one thing we can do right, just one thing, bring it down to one thing, then we keep our promise. That's building the trust tank. The trust meter that I think has been left to erode. And I don't think for many leaders this was done by intention. I think it's just the system that we're swimming in right now is contributing to a lot of the angst that we're still experiencing. And then when things do go sideways, then we acknowledge that there's transparency in how that gets communicated.
We apologize, you know, we fess up and then we vow to make it right. And I think that when people see that, then the trust meter doesn't get tanked as much. And then when we, we invite people into the conversation. How do you think we should resolve this? What would be something that you would recommend we do to address, you know, the issue that happened? How would you do it differently, I think then that builds the ongoing relationship that we have with the people we are here to serve. And if we can remember that, I think we're modeling that kind of leadership that, that we've been speaking about. Steve, you know, the humble leader, the servant leader, the leader who's guided by their values and, and is is unafraid to say, I don't know, I don't know how to do this. What do you think? To me, that's the kind of leadership that shows a moral courage that hasn't been popularized but I think feels so authentic. I think people are craving authenticity. So those would be my summary comments. So as always, Steve, it's refreshing to have these little soul checks check ins together. It's really heart lifting for me and I really appreciate the time that we spend together kind of connecting and musing about ways we as a, as a dyad and then on behalf of this amazing team that we get to work with, what, what are the things that we can do to elevate sport?
[00:40:27] Speaker A: I'm just going to call you out, Dina. You said you're going to be short and that was not short.
[00:40:32] Speaker B: I still, I still have some muscles to, to work in this area, so I have so much to say. Right.
So in the episode notes below we you'll find some sport law blogs where you can find more information related to our conversation today. Thank you so much to our listeners. We are so grateful to share our vision of Sportopia with you as we all look to elevate sport.
[00:40:54] Speaker A: As always, to have your say in Sportopia, email us at HelloPortLaw CA or on social media portlawca to let us know what you want to hear about next. Stay tuned for our next episode. Happy New Year and Happy Holidays.
