Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, it's Steve Vindig at Sport Law. Leave me a message. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Hey, Steve, it's Dina. You aren't going to believe what just came across my desk. We need to chat. Give me a call.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: Welcome to the latest episode of Sportopia. We're so excited to share our knowledge and have conversations about healthy human sport. Today, we're going to talk about another acronym in sport. Not that we need one, but because we know how much sport leaders love Alphabet soup. We thought today's topic was a good one. Today's new word or new acronym is vuca. And. And some of you may have heard of it, but all of you are for sure feeling it. Dina, before we unwrap another acronym in sport, what is going on with you?
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Thanks, Steve. Yeah, the Alphabet soup. We're going to have fun with this one. I. What's going on with me? I would say right now, what's kind of cool is I've been asked to join a speaker's bureau. Somebody heard me speak, and they were connected to a speaker's bureau, so put my name forward. I had a conversation with them a couple of days ago, and they're really intrigued with my lived experience with grief and loss, the work I've done in sport, some of my experiences, you know, having gone to the Olympics, even though it's been, you know, a couple, it's been a moment since I've been to the last Olympics, and. And so they really want to expand their capacity to talk about grief and loss and so track me down. And lo and behold, I'm going to add speaking publicly on. On this topic in my. In my tool belt. So I'm really excited about that. I think it's going to be interesting to talk about something I'm really passionate about. What about you? What's coming across your desk?
[00:02:15] Speaker A: It's a good segue to today's topic. Just, I always like to look at my agenda or my schedule for the week when we talk about this topic, about what's happening and what's coming across our desk. It's a lot. It's governance, it's bylaws, it's complaint management, it's employment contract reviews, it's opinions, it's. I'm not sure how to run an agm. It's, will you chair the agm? And. And it's. It's a lot. And I've always said, naively, 22 years ago that, geez, working in sport probably will be a Part time opportunity for me. And of course that's not the case knowing it's a full time job and how complex the amateur sport community is these days, just having knowledge and the expect expectation that all the people in sport or the administrators in sport will have this thorough knowledge on how to do all these different things.
So it's just a reinforcement for me of, of how complex our society is today and how complex it is to work in sport.
Which segues me very well, Dina, into why do we need another acronym in sport? What is vuca? And of course to all our listeners, if you can understand what I'm about to say, you'll know you're a part of the sport community.
When we know Sport Canada funds NSOs who fund PSOs who give out money for AAP carding. And if you're unsure of where to file an appeal, you call the sdrcc.
If you can translate that, you are in our world. But what does VUCA mean?
[00:04:00] Speaker B: I'm surprised you didn't add, you know, OSIC in there for good measure.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: I could keep going for sure.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, you gotta love me a cool acronym. And what's really interesting, Steve, as you know, I've been talking about values and ethics for a moment now and back I'm taking you back in 2009 actually, when you and I went for lunch, that infamous lunch, and I was knee deep in my master's research into management by values. As part of my research, I was looking at different leadership models, different management processes, and all of them were triangulating to let values guide the way. So I got really curious about that because of course at the time I was immersed in risk management land, you know, organizing a refreshing way, I would call it, for sport leaders to hold complexity, to assess their environment, to think about the risks that might be keeping them up at night, to be able to identify them and then come up with mitigation strategies. And as you know, Steve, I love being proactive rather than reactive. And so what was interesting in the research, there's this term that I came across and it was called vuca. And VUCA sounds and feels like volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity. And what's really interesting for us in the social profit world to understand is we've inherited a lot of the practices that come from corporations, big business, for profits. And what's really important for the for profits to understand is they've inherited practices from military.
So when we think of the language, and I've referenced it in previous podcasts, languages that we've inherited that may not fit with our way of being things like targets and bullet points and missions and strategic planning. This language that we've inherited comes from military, and so does vuca. So it was adopted by. From the military in corporations because people were really looking for a frame, and they thought, well, if it's successful on the battlefield for people to adopt these practices, it's likely going to be successful for us as corporate leaders. And a lot of the military people that were serving, they went on and worked in corporations back, you know, post World War II. So it's. I think it's really important for us to understand these practices that we've inherited that may not serve us. And so when we think of volatility and you're thinking of know, maybe I'll pause after each one. Okay. Because it would be really interesting for me to turn around and ask you, of the clients that we're serving, how many of them are grappling with the volatility in their environments where there's a number of unpredictable experiences that are unfolding? Like, what do you think, Steve? Like, how many of them are grappling with volatility, do you think?
[00:07:07] Speaker A: You know, reading the notes that we prepared and looking at unpredictable changes. Rapid, rapid, environmental, again, changes. It, of course, describes the sport landscape very extensively.
20 years ago, and I've said this before, if people were asking for policy development in sport, I'd probably recommend five or six. And in today, today's environment, we're somewhere between 20 and 30.
So things are rapidly changing and legislation is changing. Here in Ontario, they amended the legislation for not for profit corporations. So every sport club in Ontario has to update their bylaws to file to comply with the new legislation. In Alberta, there is legislation being proposed with respect to transgender athletes. So things are always changing. And one of the key messages, and I'll repeat it kind of as we go through the bullet points, is that being a sport administrator or understanding the landscape of sport today is challenging. I think we have to acknowledge it and we have to own it, that it's hard and it's complex and it's difficult. And I think one of the things that we want to see our clients undertake is recognizing the fact that we may not know all the answers. We, Dina, you and I may not know all the answers, and they may not know all the answers, but being prepared for that query or that question and having the person lined up who has the ability to help answer that question, I think is crucial. I think organizations get into trouble when the Answer is I don't know.
It should be I don't know, but I know where I can find the answer. And that's why I like this acronym because it's a reflective of where we are in the sporting environment and hopefully it will create people and organizations to be proactive. And where can I find that answer? One client, I remember I was doing governance work and we were assigning portfolios to different areas that were required.
And I said, okay, who's your governance person? And they said, you.
So I appreciated that. And they recognized that that was not necessarily a skill set that they had in house and they, they kind of knew it was us or it was me. So I like the fact that sometimes we recognize that we don't have the answer, but we will know where to find it.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: I really appreciate that, Steve. I, you know, so v. The volatility, right? Where in the past we could kind of land on a point in the future and feel we could settle in and with, you know, reasonable effort could move towards that future. The, the target wasn't changing the way it is now, but now if we go to the second word in the acronym, uncertainty. So it's this lack of predictability.
What we know about us humans is we want, we settle in and we feel so much more comfortable when we can step into what is known and our all. It's not what's happening now. So in sport we're experiencing levels of uncertainty that are unprecedented. And I think that because so much of sport relies on volunteers, right people power who are busy trying to navigate Vuca in their own world. So it's not just happening in sport, it's happening in all institutions and geopolitically. We also know there's incredible uncertainty in the world right now, which is creating all kinds of, you know, I would say levels of anxiety that are also unprecedented. At least that's what it feels like for us. So I want to read a quote by Rosabeth Moss Kanter. She wrote a book in 2009 when we were meeting for lunch, Steve called Super Corp. And what I love about this, I referenced her in my, in my book Values in Action. Here's what she says. All companies must respond to uncertainty, complexity, diversity and responsibility with new business models and new ways of working. For Vanguard companies, that model starts with values and principles which provides a guidance system that helps them make strategic choices with an eye on long term institution building. So this is back in 2009, like that's 15 years ago. So did she have a crystal ball? I think it's so important for us to recognize that this uncertainty, this unpredictability that we, we are swimming in is counter to what makes us comfortable. So my question to leaders when I'm engaging in leadership coaching is how are you with discomfort? What is your capacity to swim in unknown waters? So what's your sense when you're, you're supporting clients and you know, in the uncertainty of what's ahead, what are you noticing about, you know, how they're showing up?
[00:12:12] Speaker A: Well, first I'll talk about my own experience, Dina. When I started working for Sport Law over 20 years ago and I would present publicly 30, 40, 50 times a year, I was always so nervous that I would be asked a question that I didn't know the answer to. And that gave me a lot of anxiety that there was this expectation that, well, you have to have the answer. And about five years into my career, I recognized that it was okay to say, I don't know, but I'm willing to try and find out the answer or I can find somebody who has the answer. So I think embracing uncertainty, uncertainty is okay. I also think that you do have to be, have that forward looking glass and see what, what is coming and if I don't have the answer, where can I find it? But, but also be okay with I don't know, but I will look into it. So I think it's okay to be uncertain, but I don't, I don't think it's a carte blanche excuse to say, well, I don't know and leave it at that. That, that's not good enough. We know we're changing daily.
You know, the universal code of conduct came out in I believe, 2018 or 2019, and we're already on draft two and I'm sure there's a draft three in the works. There was the establishment of OSEC and its policies and they are now moving that organization to ccs, which will likely come with again new policies and procedures which will have a trickle down effect to sport organizations across the country. So we have to be prepared for that uncertainty. But I don't think we need to have the answer on a snap. I just think we have to be proactive to know what's coming and to figure out how we're going to find that answer.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Well, that, that's a really good segue to complexity and, and in the past, so the example I give people when I first started working in sport, I'm taking you back to 1991. We used to have quadrennial plans and people were expected to do like two cycles of quadrennial plans, right? So eight years out, a horizon of eight years.
Imagine that. To anticipate what the future would look like. And what I noticed when I started doing strategic planning as a consultant a decade later, I was finding like that, that forecasting or future casting, it was not available to us. So being able to demystify what complexity is, right. It's all of these like invisible forces that are swirling together. And Thomas Teal, he wrote a book in 1996 from the Human side of management, and he quoted managing is not a series of mechanical tasks, but a set of human interactions. And so we know that complexity right now feels like at a level that is really hard for us to, to get a handle on, because so much of what we transact in, in sport is human interactions. We're not producing widgets, right, Steve?
[00:15:18] Speaker A: No, not at all. What, what I, what I again like about the acronym is it starts again putting a framework around. Okay. We recognize working in sport is complex.
And I probably said this on previous podcasts where if I was asked to write a communications plan for a, an organization, I would have anxiety. I wouldn't know where to start and be very difficult thing for me to do. But for you, it would take you 30 minutes and you'd probably be be done, and it's vice versa. On things I'm comfortable with employment contracts, governance, bylaws. When I get approached with a project of that scope, great, I know what to do. It's going to take me X amount of times and the anxiety level is slim to none because I have expertise in that. So we know things are going to be complex and we want to put people into positions of strength to be able to answer the query not to have the level of anxiety. I don't know where to start or asking ChatGPT where to start. So I think again, when we talk about board structure or staff or consultants or external representatives, it's being proactive again to make sure we're putting people into positions of strength to be able to answer that complex question that we know is coming.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Yeah, so. So we're going to put a pin in AI because I do think we need to have a conversation, a podcast on, on AI and the many ways in which it's both mitigating the risks related to Vuca but also contributing to Vuca. And what I would say right now is move over chatgpt. Claude AI is taken over. I'm building a relationship with Claude AI and I have to Say I'm. I'm actually surprised and a little bit h.
Like, I, I almost have a crush on Claude because we're, I'm engaging with him in a conversation around things that matter to me. So I'm talking about how to make grief and loss a little bit more accessible. We're having conversations, and the, the capacity of Claude AI to, To be really, like, thoughtful in, in its exchange with me is unlike anything I've experienced yet on. In chat, like chat box. So go check out Claude AI, Steve, next time you've got a complex problem.
[00:17:48] Speaker A: Okay, all right, fair enough.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: So ambiguous. So we'll, we'll complete with ambiguous. And I know you're going to ask, okay, so what do we do now?
So, ambiguity. The way that I would describe ambiguity for people is it's really murky. It's like walking in a fog. So, you know when you're driving and then all of a sudden your headlights, they. They start. It feels like they stop working and they just get reduced to maybe 5ft in front of you, and how unsettling that is because you don't have that horizon to be able to kind of point towards. And, and I think that alongside the other elements of vuca, when things are murky, we have to slow down, we have to connect, we have to get grounded. And so, you know, what do we do, Steve, when things are ambiguous? What. What do you point to when you don't have a North Star that can guide your actions and decisions?
[00:18:43] Speaker A: I think it's about finding the North Star, Dina. I think it's also about recognizing in today's climate that we do know things are ambiguous, and we may not have the answer to the query or how things are going to play out in the. In the next several years, but I think just accepting that as a bit of the reality we're in is going to give you a little bit of less anxiety, less emotion around it. And I'm. Maybe I'm repeating myself, but it's, again, you know, being proactive. And we talk about being proactive all the time, whether it's policies or people or skill sets. But if we can be proactive to surround ourselves with a vast, vast number of people with different skill sets and different experiences, I hope we're setting a situation or an environment where that ambiguous environment, that ambiguous moment, will only be a moment.
So whether it's continuing education webinars, I recognize that administrators in sport are so busy running sport and just trying to get people on the fields and in the pools and on the Rinks to play. But we can't forget about the future and we can't forget about continuing learning and recognizing that ambiguity is going to happen.
But I have my resources or my people to help me solve that. So again, it's just being proactive about your network. And we talked about this on several podcasts about how a lot of sport works in silos and having a network of CEOs or other like minded sport organizations or administrators to say, hey, I've got this query that came in. Has any of you dealt with this before?
And I think that gives you the nudge or the, the little pebble down the hill on, on where to go with it. So if we can be proactive and continue our education and continue surrounding ourselves with vast different thinkers, diverse thinkers, I really think that will help alleviate some anxiety and some, maybe some ambiguity.
Dino, we've gone through the acronym.
What advice can you give sport leaders to help navigate through VUCA and apply it to their reality?
[00:21:04] Speaker B: Well, there's a couple of things and I'm going to point to a book I'm reading right now. It's called the Future of Coaching by Hedy Einsig. And I really love it because of course, a lot of the work I do is as a leadership coach and a grief coach. And so being able to help people navigate their VUCA world is something that I'm really comfortable swimming in. My companioning muscles have been conditioned to, to support people in this experience because it can be really uncomfortable and depending on people's emotional intelligence, they, they are more or less likely to find their way through. So I'm going to read you this quote by Jim Collins and Jerry Porres. This is a book that was written back in 1994. It's called built to Last. And I think it's helpful to go back in time to go, wow, it feels like these people were futurists, right? They had a sense of what was yet to come.
Here's what they say. People have a fundamental need for guiding values and a sense of purpose that give their life and work meaning. More than any time in the past, employees will demand that the organizations they're connected to stand for something. This brings me to I have three things that I usually work with clients on when they are paralyzed by vuca. The first thing is to get grounded. And the best way of getting grounded is to connect to our values. So I offer clients a personal values exercise because while many of our clients, Steve, have organizational values, many of them still don't really have a sense A felt sense of what those values are. How can we mine these values so they're actually working for us, that they're the connecting tissue that, you know, binds all of the different people together towards that shared mission. So values, I would say I'm doubling down now on the work I did back in 2009. Let our values guide our path. So we need to know what those values are. But for leaders, right? In this book that I'm reading, it's about coaches. But I would say, and the invitation is for all of us, think of our leading muscles. Sometimes we need to coach. So what is our capacity to step in as coaches? So coaching and leading, and I would dare say parenting, they're all different sides of the same prism. And being able to tap into a leadership mindset, a coaching mindset, that's going to help me feel in alignment with my values. Why? Because that means I'm going to show up authentically. And I would say the next generation, right, the millennials, they're looking for leaders who know themselves, who are able to connect to what gives them joy. And then that helps us stabilize the VUCA experience. So I would say the first kind of, you know, tip that I would offer people is do the work on yourself, get aligned with your core values, and then make sure then it's easier then to do that on behalf of the organizational values. It won't feel so foreign, right, for us to have that map to navigate towards the North Star. So before I go to point number two, I just want to pause there and get a sense from you. You know, does that resonate this idea of inviting leaders to connect first to their core values?
[00:24:25] Speaker A: Well, I think it's, it's a two part, a two parter, Dina. So individuals would have their core values and do those values also align with the organization? As you know, when we do look to add team members to the sport law team, the first thing we really question people about is their values, their personality, and does that align with us first as people? Can we work with that person? Are they going to be a good client facing team member and can we work with them? And if the answer is yes, we move to the second point, which is, okay, what's your skill set? How do you deliver that skill set? And does that also align with our corporate values, our company values? So I like that a lot because we know if you can't get by the personality component or the individual base values that don't align with, with, with our team members, it's probably going to be a Relatively short conversation.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, perfect. So we're aligned there. So now that we have our kind of core values, then what I would say, and this is more the outliers, right? It's Malcolm Gladworth, Gladwell's work around Blink and Tipp and looking for people who see the world differently, which you spoke to earlier. Right. So how can diversity be an ally to us as we're navigating this vuca world that we're in? So I want to introduce, and I think I may have talked about this before, the term positive deviance and positive deviance. So if you think of the word deviant or deviating from people sometimes. Well, let me just ask you, Steve, when I, when I introduce the word deviance, what, what first comes to mind.
[00:26:04] Speaker A: When you hear the devil?
[00:26:06] Speaker B: Right, right. Yeah. A lot of people have this like, they bristle at the word, at the term deviance, but it's actually a neutral term. It's talking about like moving away from the norm. So if we think of a bell curve, right in the middle is the norm. It's the vast majority of people. To the left of the bell curve is the, the negative forces. Right. The people who aren't there yet, the people who are not ready, the people who are dissenters. And then to the right of the curve is what we call these positively deviant people. And, and so I've spent a lot of time researching that space because of my, my master's degree. And what I was noticing is that people who think differently, it can be both a blessing and a curse depending on their emotional intelligence. So when you have leaders who are present who have done the work on themselves, then they, they almost feel it's a vocational way of being to ask the different questions, to align with, with maybe a different way of thinking to invite people who aren't thinking the same way into the conversations. They're the people who will ask who's not here.
So positive deviance is kind of like a new lens, a new way of inviting complexity and purposely navigating complexity by asking all kinds of different questions. So who's not here? What would be a different way of holding this point of view? What would others say about us? What am I not seeing here? How might I approach this if I was looking at it from a 180 perspective?
Positive deviance is just like a refreshing way of acknowledging that I come to this situation outside the norm and it can be lonely because there's not a lot of people who are encouraged to think differently. We are kind of Conditioned like the, you know, the, the lemmings to all conform to, to the norm. So it can be, and this is, that I do with clients, it can be lonely and isolating when I think differently. So who can I turn to in those moments when I'm feeling like the pull to do something so radically different? What do you think, Steve?
[00:28:34] Speaker A: Well, I'm thinking of Al. You know my Al.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, you all know me.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: That's a different guy.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: Al.
[00:28:41] Speaker A: Al was a board member who on every motion would ask why.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: And it made everybody think about why they were voting yes or voting no. And, and what I loved about Al was he always asked the question but respected everybody's opinion. So where my mind's going, Dina, is I love, you know, people asking the questions and maybe asking questions we would never think of and have that deviant person, but also doing it in a respectful manner and also recognizing that most decisions in governance is made by majority. So it's about respecting the outcome, even though it may not go your way. So I love the person who asks why and asks the questions, but I think it's a very fine line not to become that person. We all know who that person is. But doing that respectively and doing that, recognizing that majority still prevails in the way we decide and make decisions. So I love it. But I do think it's a very, very cautious line to walk because it can become that person's a pain in the. You know what?
[00:29:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, Steve, that's so good. Because we talk about group think, right? So, and, and we know we see this all the time in boards where, you know, maybe it's us Canadians, we're generalizing. We don't like conflict. But what if we teach, and this is one of our workshops where we, we teach the difference between maltreatment and generative tension.
Like, how can I hold tension? How can I hold a dissenting point of view? And so one of the great disruptions in a group think moment is for someone to ask a risk informed question. And it might sound like this. Okay, everybody, I'm sensing that we're all in agreement here. To test the strength of this decision we're about to make and vote on, I'd like to ask a risk based question.
What might be the risk of us moving in this direction? So let's just, let's just test the validity of it. That's step one. Step two, how does this decision align with our core values?
[00:30:58] Speaker A: Oh, I'm with you 100%, Dean. And I think the secret to the sauce is the way in which. Exactly as you described, is how was the query or how is the question or the comment made? And when you phrase it the way you phrased it, it's not a contentious situation. It's like, wow, you're making me think about this probably a little bit more than I had planned to, but that's not a bad thing versus a more derogatory or a direct attack on the decision that's being made. And then we get our backs up and we get defensive. So I'm with you a million percent there. I love asking the question, but I've seen it over the last 20 years where that person becomes labeled that guy or that person, and eventually we tune them out.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: Exactly. We stop listening.
[00:31:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: And that, to me, I mean, it takes us to.
We're swimming in the waters of culture, right. And. And the practices that we inherited when we're a new board member. So we come in so often, I'll ask people, what are you doing to welcome, not indoctrin, but welcome the new board member, the new staff person, the new volunteer to your culture? Because culture is the inherited practices and belief systems and artifacts and ways of being that we don't really spend a lot of time giving voice to. But people sense it, right? They sense. And we don't want to be that one person in the room that's always raising our hand and going, ah, I just want to ask a question. Because we know what that's like. We're now outside the herd. And if we're new, so think. That's why it's so important. The rule of three, right. If there's 10 people on a board, we want at least three. Like three women, right? Three people of color. Right. To bring in. So that I have. I feel a sense of kindred spirit, allyship, kind of giving me permission to have more voice in the conversation. So the third thing that I would say, and this is. This is maybe a different space for us to dabble into.
The third kind of ingredient in. In this new emergent form of leadership, I think, is hope. And the way that I like to teach about hope, and I'm immersed right now in a. In a course on. On hope, is it's a sense of a preferred future. Right? And so when you think of hope, a lot of people right now I want to demystify it a little bit, and I want to bring it down into threes. So imagine right now you have a. You have a barometer in front of you, Steve, okay? And that barometer is low, medium and high. You with me?
[00:33:31] Speaker A: I'm with you.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: Okay. So at the bottom of it is despair or fantasy land. So we're in denial. So our hope meter is low, zero to three. Okay. And there's a sense of either giving up or no sense of agency or I'm in blame and denial land. So you can feel the constriction. Right. And if you compound that in a VUCA world, people are like in quicksand. It's so uncomfortable to be in that space. So hope is not really available to us when we're in zero to three. Make sense?
[00:34:03] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: So think about, and I'm going to ask you to like, maybe think about a client. Right. Experience right now where hope is low. Because the available choices to us right now, Steve, are so small. All we can do is like play whack a mole or like immediate. We're taking immediate actions to deal with the complexity that's at hand. But our capacity to look past, you know, the situation now into something that's more in the future is unavailable to us. If I invite you into 4, 5, 6. Right. Medium level hope, we talk about this as being chosen hope or realistic hope. Now, when I accompany people who are dying, right. This is where people go, okay, I know I might have about six months to live.
So they step into acknowledging the situation that they're in and they feel like they have a little bit more agency, right. Autonomy to take action. And what starts to build inside of us if we move from four to five to six is our resources. We're able to tap into our strengths, our network. Right. And our sense of hope and possibility about. Okay, I know I'm not going to be able to impact the future, but maybe, maybe I can shift the way that I'm navigating this complexity. Does that make sense?
[00:35:24] Speaker A: It makes sense. And where my mind's going, Deana, is that hope ties into trust. So if I feel like I'm hoping for an outcome or whatever as the end result, that I have some trust that it's going to happen.
And I think some of our clients, we know there's low trust between different levels of the organizational sport. It makes hope difficult till we can start growing that trust.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: I really love this. So I can't remember the name of the poet, but here's what she says about radical hope. Hope is that thing with feathers that perches on the soul and sings and sings and sings all day and never stops at all.
[00:36:13] Speaker A: It's inspiring. It. It gives us lots of hope that we can build trust to move in the direction we want to move.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So hope for me, like trust is the one thing that can change everything. So what if we move into 7, 8, 9, 10. Right. What the researchers will talk about is radical hope or my, one of my mentors, hope beyond hope.
So what is required of us? What I feel, and I've spent a lot of time in this space, of course, because when you're grieving, what do we do when we're full of despair? Right. What do we do when life goes sideways? What do we do when we feel lonely and isolated? If we're in this hope beyond hope, we are not actually anticipating a preferred future. We have a sense of it.
Then things soften. We are less attaching to outcome and more in our bodies.
We're looking to co create something. So this is when our clients call us as a trusted advisor or they reach out to other people. They grow their capacity to navigate Vuca because it's not something we can control. It's kind of like instead of swimming against the current, you turn over on your back and you just release and you allow the current to take you to where you need to go, trusting that you can like stay afloat. Right.
So I think that these three ways of being right, this, the values, a mindset of being positively deviant, you know, welcoming different ways of thinking and being together, and then hope. I think those are the three things that in a VUCA world is going to help us stay the course.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: Well, we're running out of time, Dina, and of course we could continue to go on for hours and hours or create new acronyms as we as we continue to chat. But this is a really great conversation. Hopefully gives our listeners something to consider and think about as they continue to evolve in their sport or their own personal lives. Thank you for bringing this up as a topic. In the episode notes below you'll find some sport law blogs where you can find more information related to our conversation today. Thank you always to our listeners. We are so grateful to share our vision of Sportopia with you and to help elevate sport.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: As always, to have your say in Sportopia, email us@helloportlaw CA or on social media portlawca to let us know what you want to hear about next. Until then, stay tuned for the next episode and be well.
